Tradcast Express
Tradcast Express, it's Saturday, May 4th, 2024.
This past Wednesday, May 1st, John Salza and Robert Sisko appeared on the Michael Lofton Show
to discuss Recognize and Resist Traditionalism, Sedevacantism, and the Great Apostasy.
And not surprisingly, it was comedy hour.
Salza and Sisko, you may recall, came out with a big book called True or False Pope,
refuting Sedevacantism and other modern errors in early 2016.
Back then, they were Recognize and Resist apologists for the Society of St. Pius X.
In fact, their book was published by the Lefebvre's St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary here in the United States.
And it contains an entire chapter defending the Recognize and Resist position.
But that was then, and this is now.
At some point, they broke with the SSPX and Recognize and Resist Traditionalism altogether,
but they're still advertising their book on their website,
and they still feature the endorsements from SSPX clerics, including Bishop Bernard Fillet,
who was the Superior General back when the book was published.
Now, instead of embracing Sedevacantism, the only reasonable position in this mess,
Salza and Sisko have now become more or less full-blown Novus Ordos.
To such an extent, in fact, that they're theologically aligned now with Michael Loftin.
Don't be surprised, therefore, if they soon show up at the Where Peter Is website.
In any case, a complete critical review of the entire show
would take a while to do.
But for now, let me at least respond to the main thesis.
John Salza and Robert Sisko are claiming, in all seriousness,
that the prophesied Great Apostasy, one of the signs of the end times
that will ultimately usher in the reign of the Antichrist,
is the traditionalist movement, for lack of a better term,
of both Recognize and Resist traditionalists and Sedevacantists.
Listen to this.
It is those who, Sedevacantists, Independents, and all the rest of them,
it is those who have separated from the Roman Catholic Church
who are actually the ones bringing about the Great Apostasy.
They are effectively the apostates, if you understand that term the way Jerome was using it,
they are the revolters against Holy Mother Church.
That is the irony in all of this.
And so, all of these...
You know, podcasters that are out there,
all of these people who have devoted their apostolates
to attacking the Church in its constant, Michael, as you know,
they are actually the ones that are furthering the Great Revolt,
the Great Apostasy, and bringing about the Kingdom of the Antichrist.
Like I said, comedy.
Now, it is true that the Recognize and Resist traditionalists
adhere to a number of...
a number of positions that are seriously wrong
and are incompatible with traditional Catholic teaching.
And for that reason, we continually battle their errors
on the Novus Ordo Watch website
and in Tradcast and Tradcast Express.
Now, Salza and Sisko like to lump us together with them,
which makes it more difficult to respond in an effective way
because we always have to make clear
that we're separate from the Recognize and Resisters
whose position is different from ours.
Whose position truly is false
and whose position they are right to criticize.
But how could we Sedevacantists respond to what Salza just said?
First, I would point out that,
assuming for a minute, for the sake of argument,
that Sedevacantism is false,
the worst you could say about it is that it's a schism
because it's separated from what supposedly is the Catholic hierarchy.
But it's not heresy,
and it's definitely...
It's definitely not apostasy.
Apostasy is a complete abandonment of the Christian religion.
Now, say what you will about us Sedevacantists,
you cannot deny that at the very least,
we fully intend to adhere with all our heart
to the Roman Catholic religion
as it was revealed by Jesus Christ
and as it was known until the death of Pope Pius XII.
In other words, if today were May 4th,
1957,
you'd see all of us submitted to Pope Pius XII
and worshipping at authorized masses in union with him
and adhering firmly to his magisterium.
That religion is what we teach our children,
and if it was right then,
it cannot be wrong now.
So, even if you think we're completely wrong,
you cannot deny that our intention,
our desire, our motivation is 100%
Roman Catholic.
And even if you think we're schismatics or even heretics,
you cannot say we're apostates.
Unlike what Salza and Sisko keep saying,
we do not believe the Catholic Church has defected
or that she can defect.
That is why we're Sedevacantists.
Otherwise, if we believed
that the Church founded by Jesus Christ
could teach heresy and other grave errors,
if we believed she could compromise
with the unbelieving world,
if we believed she could offer invalid sacraments
and make the holy sacrifice of the Mass
into a liturgical happy meal,
then we'd be part of the Novus Ordo structures
and acknowledge its hierarchy as Catholic.
But this just as an aside,
now let's give this idea of traditionalists
bringing about the Great Apostasy
a little reality check.
Look at the Vatican II Church.
In all its official documents and acts.
Look at what is believed,
what is taught,
what is done,
what is legislated,
decreed,
permitted,
tolerated,
and forbidden.
Look at the whole picture.
And then look at what is taught,
believed,
and done by Sedevacantists.
In fact, why don't you, for example,
listen to a few sermons by
Cardinal Robert McElroy of San Diego
or Bishop,
John Stowe of Lexington.
And then listen to a few sermons
by Bishop Donald Sanborn
or Bishop Mark Pivarunas.
And then ask yourself,
which of these two groups
adheres to and proclaims
the apostolic faith
as it was taught and believed
and known until 1958?
And which of the two repudiates it
and instead represents an apostasy
from that faith,
a revolt against it,
a rebellion against the authority
of the Holy Roman Catholic Church
all the way from the beginning
until the death of Pope Pius XII.
See, when the popes in the 19th
and 20th centuries until 1958
condemned modern errors
and warned of contemporary threats
against the faith,
of secret societies plotting
against the church
and trying to overthrow the papacy,
they were condemning
and warning against things like
liberalism,
modernism,
indifferentism,
Gallicanism,
communism,
ecumenism,
subjectivism,
existentialism,
errors regarding church and state,
liturgical errors,
and so forth.
It is these very errors
that have provided the fertile ground
for the great apostasy,
for Vatican II,
for the Novus Ordo Mass,
and the entire theological sewer
that is the false postconception
and conciliar magisterium.
The great apostasy certainly does not
consist of a rejection
of all these heresies and errors,
along with a rejection of the men
who imposed them as false shepherds
because such evil could never have come
from the authority of the Roman Catholic Church,
from the legitimate Catholic shepherds.
Oh, and by the way,
if Sedevacantists
and even recognize and resist traditionalists,
if we are to say that we are not
we are the great apostates
preparing the stage for the Antichrist,
where is the abomination of desolation
in the holy place?
Sure, Salza and Sisko could say,
well, those are the illicit masses,
the masses being offered by Sede priests
without permission
or something along those lines.
But is that what is meant
by the abomination of desolation
in the holy place?
We don't even have our own churches
in the canonical sense.
So, according to Salza and Sisko,
our churches probably wouldn't even qualify
as being the holy place.
And, speaking generally,
illicit masses that are offered
by some breakaway group
would not constitute
any particularly apocalyptic sign
of the end times.
Forbidden masses have taken place
again and again in church history.
For example,
the first Anglican masses
were valid but unlawful.
The Eastern Orthodox offer
valid but illicit masses every day
and have been for a very long time.
Some of the so-called old Catholics
have valid orders
and so even they are offering
valid masses if they use
the right matter and form
and have the right intention.
So, why would our masses,
if they were forbidden,
be the abomination of desolation?
Well,
if, on the other hand,
we look for an abomination of desolation
in the Vatican II Church,
we have quite a few candidates.
Whether it be
the Novus Ordo Mass itself
or the liturgical chaos
that is its typical expression
or the deliberately irreverent clown masses
or perhaps the Pacha Mama statue
in St. Peter's Basilica,
there are a number of candidates
to choose from.
Besides,
remember that back in January
of this year,
Francis permitted the Anglican Archbishop
of Canterbury,
who is a layman,
to offer an invalid Anglican Mass
on the main altar
of St. Bartholomew's Basilica in Rome.
According to the definitive
and probably infallible
judgment of Pope Leo XIII
in 1896,
Anglican orders are invalid
and so that was most certainly
an invalid Mass.
And that is true
even according to Novus Ordo teaching.
I mean, talk about an abomination
in a holy place.
So, let's not get carried away here.
The worst possible scenario
for the sake of argument
is that Sedevacantist Masses
are schismatic and forbidden.
Forbidden schismatic Masses
have been around for a long time.
Now, I'm not trying to make light
of the grave crime
that would constitute
a forbidden schismatic Mass.
I'm just saying
it would be absurd to say
that that's the abomination
of desolation.
Especially when you look at
what the Novus Ordo Church
has to offer
in terms of liturgical abominations
even in the Vatican.
So, let's keep things
in perspective here.
But hey,
the false prophets
Salza and Sisko
want you to believe
that the Great Apostasy,
the great revolt
against the Catholic Church
and her unchangeable faith
is not
Francis telling Jews
that the way to salvation
for them
is the observance
of the Mosaic Law.
It is not Francis
telling Muslims
about transcendence
and fraternity
instead of Jesus Christ.
It is not the Vatican
trying to find religious unity
with Protestants
that does not involve
their conversion
to the only true Church of Christ.
It is not Francis
declaring that religious differences
are willed by God
and are in fact necessary.
It is not Francis
declaring that other religions
are simply different ways
of coming to God
that constitute an enrichment
for humanity.
It is not John XXIII's
opening of the Church
to the world
and his teaching
of the primacy of conscience.
It is not Paul VI's
new Mass and communion
in the hand
that have ruined
the faith of generations.
It is not Francis
saying that with regard
to justification
Martin Luther was right.
It is not John Paul II's
inter-religious prayer gatherings
with every pagan
and heretical religion
under the sun.
It is not Vatican II ecclesiology
according to which
the Catholic Church
exists in elements
also in other religions.
It is not Francis
approving of the
Abrahamic family house
that includes a church,
a mosque,
and a synagogue.
It is not John Paul II's
code of canon law
permitting Protestants
and Orthodox
to receive communion,
confession,
and extreme unction
under certain circumstances
even outside the danger of death
without having to convert first.
It is not the diocese
of Yola, Nigeria
building a mosque
for Muslim refugees.
It is not Francis'
constant efforts
to naturalize the supernatural
or his denial
of the genuine danger
of hell in some way or another
or his love affair
with Judas Iscariot.
It is not Vatican II
declaring that the Holy Ghost
uses false religions
as means of salvation.
It is not the total repudiation
of the social kingship of Christ
by the Vatican II Church.
It is not Francis
instructing prison inmates
that all they must do
to be forgiven by God
is ask him,
for forgiveness.
It is not the enormous
loss of faith,
vocations,
morals,
and sacramental practice
that has occurred after
and because of
Vatican II.
No, no.
None of these things
have anything to do
with the great apostasy,
of course.
Although he technically
holds sway over
more than a billion people
in every part of the world,
Francis and his five predecessors
are not the danger to souls here.
Clearly, the real danger to souls
is the few Sedevacantists
and Recognize and Resisters
who want the world to embrace
the Roman Catholic doctrines
and practices
from before Vatican II.
That is the great apostasy.
You can't make it up.
Folks, this is the madness
to which people are driven
when they accept Francis as Pope
and then try to make
the Vatican II revolution
somehow fit into the world.
into the Roman Catholic religion.
Up is down,
left is right,
right is wrong.
Let's end this madness right here.
The great apostasy,
the great revolt,
was Vatican II
or began with Vatican II.
And that council
could only come about
because contrary to appearances,
the man who solemnly ratified
its decrees
and imposed them
on all who followed him
was the one who was
was not, in fact, the Pope.
And the fruits prove it.
According to the official data
just released by the Vatican,
the number of what they call
baptized Catholics in the world
as of 2022
was 1,376,000,000.
That's the digits
1, 3, 7, 6
and then six zeros.
So essentially,
we're talking about roughly
1.4 billion
Novus Ordo Catholics.
Now, let's estimate
the total number of traditionalists
defined loosely as
both Sedevacantists
and those who acknowledge Francis
and his five predecessors
as true popes
but refuse assent to Vatican II
and reject the Novus Ordo mass
and ecumenism and so on.
In other words,
we're not including those people
who are fully submitted
to the Vatican II Church
but simply prefer
the traditional Latin mass.
How many trads might that be?
Let's highball it.
I would say 2 million at most.
But, hey, let's be really generous
and say 4 million.
That would mean that
compared to the official number
of Novus Ordos,
the traditionalists,
you know, the ones bringing about
the great apostasy and the Antichrist,
would come,
constitute only
0.3% of that.
0.3%.
And that is the great revolt,
the great deception
that's going to deceive
almost everyone except the elect.
And look,
if anyone has a better estimate,
then use that number
and do the math yourself.
But no matter what number you use,
as long as it's realistic,
you're going to get a teeny,
tiny fraction
of the official
Novus Ordo membership number.
Folks, call it what you will,
it ain't the great apostasy.
Now, here's another thing.
Of those over 1 billion people
that the Vatican considers Catholics,
how many of them
actually believe
in all Catholic dogmas?
How many Novus Ordos
believe in no salvation
outside the Church, for example?
Or in purgatory?
In heaven and hell
as defined by the Church?
In original sin?
In the bodily resurrection of Christ?
In the perpetual virginity
of the Blessed Mother?
In the Holy Mass
as a propitiatory sacrifice?
In transubstantiation?
In transdogmas
on justification?
In the prohibition
of contraception?
in the indissolubility of marriage? How many of them even know what the virtue of faith
actually is? How many of them adhere to the condemnations in the syllabus of errors of
Pope Pius IX? How many of them reject the tenets of modernism? Of those people who leave the
Vatican to church to become Sedevacantists, they do so precisely because they could not find
Catholicism believed or taught in what claims to be the Roman Catholic Church, the entity
currently ruled by Pope Francis. Salza and Sisko are basically straining a gnat and swallowing a
camel.
Let's go back to the beginning.
Let's go back to John Salza for a minute and see what he says next.
Because at some point, as Robert's going to explain, Scripture says, you know, the man of
sin of perdition has been restrained, but at some point God is going to say enough is enough,
and he's going to let the Antichrist come on the scene. What brings that about? It brings that
about this great revolt against the Catholic Church brings it about, and I'll just end with
this. The reason why it brings it about is because when we talk about
separation from the Roman Catholic Church, what does that mean? We are talking about a legal
separation that is a withdrawal or separation from the structure of the Church. What is the
structure of the Church? It's effectively the bishops, the pillars and foundations of the
Church. Of course, the Pope and the bishops. Pius XII calls it the structure of the Church. I think
you've addressed that on prior shows. So a withdrawal from the visible society is truly a withdrawal
from the Roman Catholic Church. It's effectively the bishops, the pillars, and foundations of the
Church. It's effectively the authority of the bishops, those who have spiritual and legal
authority over us, which then in effect renders their authority impotent, so to speak, because
as subjects, even though they're bound by the bishops to exercise it. And so the great revolt
is this formal separation, this juridical separation from the visible society that's
going to ultimately usher in Antichrist. If you noticed a little skip, a cut in the
audio, that was not my doing.
That is the Michael Lofton Show audio on YouTube. It was edited like that by them, not by me.
So John Salza is talking as if Vatican II had never happened. He's all worried about a separation
from the structure of the Church, when in actual fact, the Pope he is supposedly submitted to
teaches, along with Vatican II, that the baptized who are not part of the visible
sort of structure are nevertheless part of the mystical body of Christ. Remember what
Francis said to Lutherans from Finland on January 17th, 2020? He said this, quote,
Together you are journeying, as all of us are, in communion of faith, so as to encourage
one another and to strengthen one another in Christian discipleship. A Christian is
someone who can give thanks to God for the things that he has done for us. He can give
thanks for his or her baptism. And this gratitude unites us within the community of all the baptized.
The report of the Catholic Lutheran Dialogue Group for Sweden and Finland, entitled Justification
in the Life of the Church, rightly observes that those who are already baptized can, together
with their brothers and sisters, develop their opportunities for holiness, which come from
their common justification in Christ.
As members of one and the same mystical body of Christ, Christians are bound to one
another and must bear one another's burdens. Since Christ came to redeem the whole world,
it is also a mission for the church and for individual Christians, both lay and ordained,
to witness to the good news in the midst of their daily life. Unquote.
Looks like the supposed vicar of Christ doesn't believe that being separated from Christ can be
from the structure of the church is all that big of a deal, and certainly not something that
precludes you from eternal salvation. Secondly, remember what Francis told the Ethiopian Orthodox
patriarch Abuna Matthias on February 29th, 2016? He said this, quote,
We have almost everything in common, one faith, one baptism, one Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
We are united by virtue of our baptism, which has made us members of the one body of Christ.
We are also united by the various common elements of our rich monastic traditions
and liturgical practices. We are brothers and sisters in Christ.
As has often been said, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
As has often been observed, what unites us is greater than what divides us. Unquote.
Eat that, Salza and Sisko.
In a nutshell, Salza and Sisko are conveniently using traditional Roman Catholic apologetics
to justify the Vatican II church and guilt people into remaining attached to it,
the very church that doesn't do traditional Catholic apologetics.
In a nutshell, Salza and Sisko are conveniently using traditional Roman Catholic apologetics
In fact, the Vatican II church doesn't even claim to be the one true church
that all must convert to in order to be saved.
Novosorto ecumenism explicitly repudiates the notion
that Protestants must convert to Catholicism.
In their mad desire to see people attached and submitted to the apostate
Jorge Bergoglio, Salza and Sisko now argue that the great apostasy
is not the enormous religion that ultimately doesn't give a hoot about apostasy,
but the few people who are trying to remain faithful to the teachings of all the popes
until the death of Pius XII.
We'll end this podcast with another quote by the very man to whom Salza and Sisko say
you must submit to as a matter of your eternal salvation, Pope Francis, teaching a catechesis
on St. Joseph and the Communion of Saints at his general audience of February 2, 2022.
Quote,
Let us consider, dear brothers and sisters, that in Christ no one can ever truly separate us
from those we love because the bond is an existential bond, a strong bond that is in
our very nature. Only the manner of being together with each of them changes, but nothing and no one
can break the bond.
Father, let us think about those who have denied the faith, who are apostates, who are the
persecutors of the church, who have denied their baptism. Are these also at home?
Yes, these too, even the blasphemers, everyone. We are brothers. This is the communion of saints.
The communion of saints holds together the community of believers on earth and in heaven.
Exit, John Salza and Robert Sisko.
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