00:00
and now coming to you from an undisclosed location it's the Novus Ordo
watch drag cast you can't make the stuff up
we announced to you a great joy habemus trap cast and you're listening to it

00:01
welcome it is our second episode and you made a very good decision by tuning in
this podcast is going to be very informative as we talk about the true
traditional Catholic doctrine on the papacy on papal authority and refute a
typical argument made against the set of a contest position
in our first segment we would like to address the objection that on our
website we have referred to as the bat Pope's argument and the objection is
essentially that well you know we have had bad Pope's in the past that didn't
somehow keep them from being real Pope's so why can't we have bad Pope's in the
present and they would still be true Pope's they don't stop being Pope's just
because they're bad and then oftentimes a reference is made to the case of st.

00:02
Peter and how he denied Christ during the passion and that's usually how the
argument goes now the first thing that is to be said about this is that we must
distinguish bad Pope's from non Catholic popes a historical example of a truly
bad Pope would be the case of Pope John the twelfth he was truly a very immoral
man and he was most definitely a troop hope however what we have in our day and
what we've had since the death of Pope Pius the 12th is a completely different
case altogether we're not simply talking about bad Catholics we're we're not
talking about people who hold and profess the Catholic faith but are

00:03
simply not living the faith they profess we're not talking simply about sinful
Catholics a matter of fact we're all sinners every Pope from the very
beginning has been a sinner and it will always be this way so no we're not
talking about being a sinner so in a way you can say that each and every one of
us is bad to a greater or lesser extent in one way or another we're all bad
Catholics okay in in that sense but that's not what's going on here what's
different this time around is that the people in question the Pope's in
question right that's the suppose at Pope's since PI is the
and that would be john xxiii Paul the sixth John Paul the first John Paul the
second Benedict the sixteenth and now Francis what's different here is that
these people do not actually hold or profess the Catholic faith so right at

00:04
the outset let us distinguish a bad Catholic from a non Catholic okay this
is extremely difficult because somebody who commits sins against the faith at
least certain sins against faith becomes a non Catholic and as always you do not
have to take our word for this we're going to quote Pope Pius the 12th who
taught about this quite beautifully in his encyclical mr. Chi corporis of 1943
and we have the link to that on our trap cast page just look for the second
episode trap cast number zero zero two and there you will find the link to that
Pope eyes the twelfth taught as follows quote actually only those are to be
included as members of the church who have been baptized and professed the
true faith and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves

00:05
from the unity of the body or been excluded by a legitimate Authority for
grave faults committed nor must one imagine that the body of the church just
because it bears the name of Christ is made up during the days of its earthly
pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness or that consists only
of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness it is owing to the
Savior's infinite mercy that place is allowed in his mystical body here below
for those whom evolved he did not exclude from the banquet for not every
sin however grave it may be is such as of its own nature to sever a man from
the body of the church as does sysm or heresy or apostasy men may lose charity
and divine grace through sin thus becoming incapable of supernatural
and yet not be deprived of all life if they hold fast to faith and Christian

00:06
hope and if illumined from above they are spurred on by the interior
promptings of the Holy Spirit two salutary fear and are moved to prayer
and penance for their sins that is Pope Pius the 12th in his encyclical misted
xi corporis and the exact reference is numbers 22 and 23 you can read that for
yourself if you like that cyclical is also available by the way on the
modernist Vatican's website so you can even go there and find the same text
there so let's recap for a minute what we just read the Pope made clear that
not all sins are of such a nature as to sever oneself from the church from the
body of Christ some such sins that do that are sysm
heresy and apostasy in other words this is mattock the heretic and the apostate

00:07
in virtue of his sin by the nature of the sin ceases to be a member of the
church he's not just a bad Catholic he is no longer a Catholic and there is
actually very good reason for that and that is that the Catholic Church one of
her distinguishing marks is of course her unity and that implies unity of
faith and government now the apostate and the heretic profess a different
faith and therefore they cannot be a part of the Catholic Church because the
Catholic Church only has one faith she does not have differing faiths different
faiths that contradict one another okay that that would not make any sense
and of course st. Paul in chapter 4 of Ephesians mentions that there's one Lord

00:08
one faith one baptism in I believe that is verse 5 of chapter 4 in Ephesians so
it is in the nature of the sin itself this
of heresy and the sin of apostasy that a man is thereby excluded from the church
it's very important that we understand the exclusion from the church is not
just a punishment for example as would be being excommunicated from the church
for procuring and abortion okay that is a punishment because of a very severe
crime but in the case of heresy apostasy and sysm the severing from the church
from the body of Christ from the mystical body of Christ is not simply a
punishment it is rather the natural necessary and logical consequence of
professing a different faith in the case of heresy and apostasy or of refusing

00:09
submission to the Roman pontiff or members of the church who are subject to
the Roman pontiff as in the case of sysm
so ones loss of membership in the church
is due to the nature of that sin the sin of heresy the cynicism the sin of
apostasy one cannot abandon the true faith and still be a member of the
church which only has one faith and which is not divided either in her faith
or in her government that is what Pope Pius the 12th is teaching here and any
catechism any dogmatic manual any theology textbook will confirm that so
it is these sentence heresies ISM and apostasy that sever a man by their very
nature from the church so it could not be otherwise there is no instance in

00:10
which the sin of heresy would not in fact cut one off from the Catholic Church
this is not the case with any other sin there is no other sin that of its very
nature would cut people off from the Catholic Church
so for example even really really heinous sins like blasphemy sins that
cry to heaven for vengeance ends of the unnatural kind really any any other sin
against the ten commandments do not however terrible and however foul they
may be do not of their nature sever a man from the Catholic Church and so with
this very important distinction in mind we can now understand why the argument
that there have always been bad Pope's is really a bad argument and does not

00:11
prove what it attempts to prove now since a heretic assess mattock and an
apostate is not a member of the Catholic Church such a one obviously could also
not be the Pope of the Catholic Church since in order to be the head of the
Catholic Church I must at least be a member in fact on this very point the
Catholic Encyclopedia published during the pontificate of Pope Saint Pius the
tenth in the early 20th century says the following quote of course the election
of a heretic says mattock or female would be null and void unquote and this
is really a no-brainer it's not difficult to understand and it makes
perfect sense that he who does not share the faith of the church he who does not
profess that same faith obviously cannot be the head of the Catholic Church now
we had already mentioned earlier the case of Pope John the 12th he reigned

00:12
from 955 to 963 and he was only 16 years old when he was elected so what does
Catholic history say about the case of Pope John the twelfth I'm going to quote
two passages here from Father Fernand Marais and his book a history of the
Catholic Church volume 2 published in 1946 in the first pass
father Marais speaks about John the 12th before he became PO what kind of a man
he was John the 12th was actually royalty his birth name was Prince
Octavian so with that in mind here's what father Marais says about Octavian
quote nothing in his life marked him for this office and everything should have
kept him from it he was rarely seen in church his days and nights were spent in
the company of young men and of disreputable women in the pleasures of

00:13
the table and of amusements and of the hunt or in even more sinful sensual
enjoyments it is related that sometimes in the midst of dissolute revelry the
Prince had been seen to drink to the health of the devil race to the papal
office Octavian changed his name and took the name of John the 12th he was
the first pope thus to assume a new name but his new dignity brought about no
change in his morals and merely added the guilt of sacrilege unquote so here
we have a terrible picture of the man Prince Octavian it is really hard to
imagine how he was even elected to the pontificate but his sins certainly did
not as terrible as they were they did not prevent a valid election to the

00:14
papal office so even though he was a a terrible blasphemer a a terrible man of
impurity and a glutton and so forth nevertheless when he was elected he
truly and validly became the Pope but watch what father Maury says next
because it now it gets really interesting and it shows a very good
contrast to what is going on in our times quote divine providence watching
over the church miraculously preserved that a positive faith of which this
young voluptuary was the Guardian this Pope's life was a monstrous scandal but
his bull arrium and by this he means that the teaching documents he issued
has his edicts and so his velarium is faultless we cannot
sufficiently admire this prodigy there is not a heretic or sis Matic who has
not endeavored to legitimate his own conduct dogmatically fo Deus tried to

00:15
justifies pride Luther his sensual passions
Calvin his cold cruelty neither sir just the third nor John the twelfth nor
Benedict the ninth nor Alexander the sixth supreme pontiff's definers of the
faith certain of being heard and obeyed by the whole church uttered from the
height of their apostolic pulpit a single word that could be an approval of
their disorders at times John the twelfth even became the defender of the
threatened social order of offended canon law and of the religious life
exposed to danger unquote BAM yes thank you Michael Voris we keep
Michael Voris back here for occasional comments please excuse so yes there can
be bad Pope's oh yes and there has been before and they were certainly valid
Pope's but see the difference see the difference here we're talking about

00:16
Pope's Catholics true Catholics who professed the true faith who believe the
true faith and even though they did not act in accordance with it nevertheless
did not utter heresy they did not believe false teaching they did not
profess anything that contradicted the dogmas of the faith and that's the big
difference to our time so yes bad Pope's can certainly exist but what we cannot
have is non Catholic popes you see our Lord never promised and Catholic
teaching certainly does not claim that there will be a true Pope at all times
that is simply not true the Church does not teach that our Lord did not promise
that but what our Lord did promised and what the church does teach is that when
we do have a Pope he is guaranteed to be a Catholic
because that is actually part of the definition of Pope right he is the head

00:17
of the Catholic Church he's therefore a member of the Catholic Church he must be
a Catholic just like a triangle must have three sides in order to be a
triangle right and just like a bachelor must be unmarried in order to be a
bachelor it simply could not be otherwise otherwise you have a
contradiction in terms but let's look at some Catholic teaching
on this very point as always we don't want you to just take our word for it
the following is a quote from Pope Benedict the 14th apostolic constitution
pastor Ali's Romani Ponte Fiji's and it was published on March 30th
17:41 here's what pope benedict xiv taught quote the vigilance and the
pastoral solicitude of the roman pontiff according to the duties of his office
are principally and above all manifested in maintaining and conserving the unity

00:18
and integrity of the catholic faith without which it is impossible to please
God they strive also to the end that the faithful of Christ not being like
irresolute children or carried about by every wind of doctrine by the wickedness
of men may all come to the unity of faith and to the knowledge of the Son of
God to form the perfect man that they may not harm one another or offend
against one another in the community and the society of this present life but
that rather united and the bond of charity like members of single body
having Christ's forehead and under the authority of his vicar on earth the
Roman pontiff successor of the Blessed Peter from whom is derived the unity of
the entire Church they may increase in number for the edification of the body
and with the assistance of divine grace they may so enjoy tranquility in this

00:19
life as to enjoy future beatitude unquote was Pope Benedict the 14th and if you
think about what he's saying the very idea of a heretical Pope of a
non-catholic Pope you you cannot fit that into these words it would make the
words absurd ok how could the Pope if he's a heretic
how could he maintain and conserve the unity and integrity of the Catholic faith
how could he ensure that the faithful will come to the unity of faith if he
himself does not share that faith and is not a part of that unity but actually
contradicts it how could it be said how could it truly be said that the Roman
pontiff is the source of unity of the entire church if he's not a Catholic ok
it would really throw a monkey wrench into it all it would make the teaching
absurd now of course there is more there's much more such teaching found in

00:20
the documents of the Pope's and in the Magisterial documents this was Benedict
the fourteenth and there's actually another good quote by him from his
apostolic constitution etsy pasta release of May 26th 1740 - and he says
quote the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman pontiff have primacy in the entire
world the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter the Prince of the
Apostles true Vicar of Christ head of the whole church father and teacher of
all Christians unquote so again if he's the head of the whole church the father
and the teacher of all Christians how could that be so if he's not a Catholic
himself how how could he be said to be the head of that of which he is not in
fact a member Pope Leo the 13th taught of course the exact same thing in his
letter a Stalag letter epistle ah - ah -

00:21
Cardinal geebeare of June 17th 1885 Pope
Leo teaches the following he says to the Shepherd's alone was given all power to
teach to judge to direct I'm a faithful was imposed
the duty of following their teaching of submitting with docility to their
judgment and if allowing themselves to be governed corrected and guided by them
in the way of salvation thus it is an absolute necessity for the simple
faithful to submit in mind and heart to their own pastures and for the latter to
submit with them to the head and supreme pasture unquote now this teaching of
pope leo xiii makes no sense if it were possible for the pope to be a heretic
let's look for a minute at the bull unum sanctum of pope boniface the 8th that
was published in November 18 1302 and pope boniface declares as follows quote

00:22
furthermore we declare we proclaim we define that it is absolutely necessary
for salvation that every human creature be subject to the roman pontiff unquote
here too it would be absurd to say that it is necessary for salvation to be
subject to a heretic in fact we have an obligation to flee heretics because they
would poison us by their false teaching they would endanger our souls so again
we see that the idea that the Pope can be a heretic leads to absurdity let's
look at another quote from Pope Leo the 13th in 1896 he published his beautiful
encyclical satis cognitum on the unity of the church and he says quote union
with the roman sea of Peter is always the public criterion of a Catholic you

00:23
are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith
if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held unquote again we see
that the idea that a Pope can be a heretic is absurd because in that case
it would be false to say that the faith of Rome is to be held and union with the
Roman sea of Peter who would actually not be a guarantee or a sign of
Doxey or a sign of being a true Catholic like Pope Leo the 13th says you are not
to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach the
faith of Rome but if the faith of Rome is heretical this is absurd
okay the same faith cannot be Catholic and heretical at the same time so once
again we have absurdity if we believe that it is possible to have a heretical

00:24
Pope and let's look at one more quote here it is also from Pope Leo the 13th
in an allocution of February 20th 1903 he taught quote the strong and effective
instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman pontificate unquote so
once more the quote makes no sense if it
were possible for a pope to be a heretic because obviously the heretical Pope is
not the strong and effective instrument of salvation in fact if he's anything is
the strong and effective instrument of damnation and that's exactly what's
going on with Francis now let's look at a quote from the first Vatican Council
of 1870 it was ratified by Pope Pius the 9th and it taught as follows regarding
the connection between the papacy and the true faith quote to satisfy this

00:25
pastoral duty our predecessors always gave tireless attention that the saving
doctrine of Christ be spread among all the peoples of the earth and with equal
care they watched that wherever it was received it was preserved sound and pure
therefore the bishops of the whole world now individually now gathered in
Senate's following a long custom of the churches and the formula of the ancient
rule referred to this Holy See those dangers particularly which emerged in
the affairs of faith that they're especially the damages to faith might be
repaired where faith cannot experience a failure the
Roman pontiff's moreover according as the condition of the times and affairs
advised sometimes by calling ecumenical councils or by examining the opinion of
the church spread throughout the world sometimes by particular sentence
sometimes by employing other helps which divine providence supplied have defined

00:26
that those matters must be held which with God's help they have recognized as
in agreement with Sacred Scripture and apostolic tradition
for the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter that by his
revelation they might disclose new doctrine but that by his help
they might guard secretly the revelation
transmitted through the Apostles and the deposit of faith and might faithfully
set it forth indeed all the venerable Fathers have embraced their apostolic
doctrine and the holy Orthodox doctors have venerated and followed it knowing
full well that the see of st. Peter always remains unimpaired by any error
according to the divine promise of our Lord the Savior mate to the chief of his
disciples I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not and thou being once

00:27
converted confirmed thy brethren unquote does this sound to you like the Novus
Ordo Vatican no no I didn't think so all right we have one more quote this
will be the last one Pope Pius the 9th his encyclical inter multiplied chess
quote now you know well that the most deadly foes of the Catholic religion
have always waged a fierce war but without success against this chair of
st. Peter they are by no means ignorant of the fact that religion itself can
never totter and fall while this chair remains intact
the chair which rests on the rock which the proud gates of hell cannot overthrow
and in which there is the whole and perfect solidity of the Christian
religion unquote okay I really think we've we've made our

00:28
point here you simply cannot believe these things all these quotes I've been
giving you simply cannot adhere to all this and still maintain that Francis is
a true Pope that Benedict the 16th was a troop hope that john paul ii and all
these modernists that have claimed the papacy since pi is that well that they
could have been true Pope's it's just not possible the chair of st. peter is
the guarantee of Orthodoxy in the church and it cannot be replaced by some desk
chair in minnesota or in virginia diabolical disorientation diabolical
disorientation i have well the consistory edition yeah well no I'm
sorry but diabolical disorientation is first of all not a theological concept
at all has nothing to do with sacred theology so you could never use it to
argue to make a theological argument and number two you certainly cannot use it

00:29
against Catholic teaching alright so I think we've made the case very well here
that it is absurd to think that somebody like Jorge bergoglio Francis could
actually be the Pope of the Catholic Church and to wrap it up yes that Pope's
indeed are possible we certainly had them in the past but non Catholic pope
is an impossibility it's an absurdity it would absolutely
destroy Catholic teaching on the papacy now I don't know about you but I could
certainly use a break right now and that's why we'll be back in just a few
moments tragg cast ignore this podcast at your own risk

00:30
track cast is a production of Novus Ordo
watch.org we watch the Vatican to church so you don't have to go to Novus Ordo
watch.org Novus Ordo watch.org and see for yourself that the Vatican 2 church
is not in fact the Catholic Church of the ages
Novus Ordo watch is back trap casting like there's no tomorrow because what do
you know there just might not be we covered a lot of material in the first
segment so in this second portion we'll just take care of a few housekeeping

00:31
items so to speak but first to recap the first segment a pope who is a bad
Catholic is still a valid Pope but a papal claimant who professes a different
faith from that of the church is not simply a bad Catholic but not a Catholic
at all and therefore not a valid Pope sins against the faith cancel a man's
membership in the church whereas sins against morals do not now to be sure an
immoral Catholic pope who dies in his sins even though he dies as a member of
the church will most certainly not be saved he will go to hell so we're not
saying that membership in the church is somehow sufficient for salvation far
from it but such a such an immoral Pope does die a valid Pope whereas heretics
apostates and says Mattox die outside the church neither the immoral valid

00:32
Pope nor a heretical papal claimant will be saved and remember any documents
we've quoted and talked about here today you can find linked on our trap cast
homepage for the show it's episode number two so you're not left hanging
okay we don't want you to think that we just say stuff and you have to believe
us all right the point is that you can research all these things for yourself
you can look them up and we want to facilitate just that trap cast you are
listening to trap cast the traditional Catholic podcast on the Internet now if
you're new to track cast and this is your first time listening please make
sure you also listen to our inaugural episode which you can access at our
website track cast dot or trap cast is a production of Novus Ordo
watch at Novus Ordo watch.org it is free of charge and always will be you can

00:33
subscribe to our podcast feed to ensure you will never miss an episode
we are syndicated through iTunes as well as stitcher you can subscribe there or
you can simply subscribe through any other podcast client you may like the
RSS feed is provided on our home page at track cast org you can also simply
listen right there on our web page through the embedded player or the
embedded YouTube video if you prefer the only really important thing is that you
do actually listen okay now looking at the clock I have to say
sorry but we have come to the end of our
second episode yes sorry we know we know you can't wait for the next one so
actually we have a suggestion why don't you get busy and tell your friends about
trap cast that will shorten the wait for you make it a little easier and it'll

00:34
help us tremendously you can do that by email via Twitter on Facebook or through
Skype or however you like okay we appreciate your help in this matter
and oh by the way in our next podcast this is important barring unforeseen
circumstances we will respond in our next podcast to a rebuttal posted by
Eric Goose key of the track cat night block regarding our post on Pope Leo the
13th and the recognize end resist position
Erica juice key criticized what we had put up and we will be more than happy to
respond to that it'll be in our next trap cast episode unless of course that
gets preempted by something else something unforeseen with with Francis
in the Vatican really you just never know I mean you just don't know what
might happen it's very difficult to plan anything also on the blog because you
you never know he has foot-in-mouth disease you know and for all we know he
might just decide to declare that there are four persons in the Blessed Trinity

00:35
or something like that at this point it just wouldn't surprise
me also we are going to have more newsy items in the future where we talk about
current events in the Vatican and the Novus Ordo sect in general right now
we're not doing that just yet because we can't quite tell yet
being new to this podcasting thing we can't quite tell yet just how much time
elapses between the recording of this show and its actual release so we want
to make sure that we don't end up talking about something that by the time
you listen to it is really not all that current or all that important anymore
and this is it for today thank you for listening please pass the word about
track cast on to others and tune in again for the next episode I am the man
with the perfect face for radio until next time may God bless you