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and now coming to you from an undisclosed location
it's the novus ordo watch track tradcast [Music] you can't make the stuff up
[Music] welcome ladies and gentlemen to treadcast 28 a special edition podcast

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dedicated to continuing our critical review
of taylor marshall's book infiltration the plot to destroy the church from
within this is part two of that endeavor and it is also the final part [Music]
so we're going to wrap it up in this podcast and it's going to be a long one
and it's going to be intense so uh fasten your seat belts uh but it will be
well worth your time [Music] all right so we are on chapter 21 of infiltration
which begins on page 153 in the printed copy the chapter is
entitled otavjani intervention against pope paul vi and it is a

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whopping one and a half pages in length now i don't know if i mentioned this in
part one back in may but i think the reason why many of his chapters
are so ridiculously short is that he wanted to have a total of
33 chapters that's just speculation on my part
i have no idea if that is the reason but i noticed
that the total number of chapters is 33 and i can imagine that he wanted
to have that outcome in any case for those who are not familiar with the term
otaviani intervention that is the informal name for a theological study
whose proper name is brief critical study
of the new order of mass the novus ordo mise it was written by a group of roman
theologians that's how they identify themselves the main writer was
the french dominican father michelle louis gerard de laurier who later

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became a state of iconist bishop the study was sent to paul vi
with an accompanying letter signed by cardinal alfredo ottaviani
and cardinal antonio bocce actually he was only bishop bocce because
it was the false pope john the 23rd who'd made him a cardinal but that's
beside the point now so the otaviano intervention was an attempt spearheaded
by cardinal otaviani to stop the new mass or at least get it modified uh before
it would take effect the study itself was dated june 5th 1969 the letter
accompanying it was dated september 25th and the study together with the letter
were given to paul vi on september 29th so that was roughly
two months before the mass was going to be mandatory throughout the church
in the roman rite paul vi had published the decree introducing it back in april
of that year originally the idea had been to have

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a great many cardinals and bishops sign the letter and support the theological
study in order to get the new mass stopped but
because the text of the intervention was leaked ahead of time and made public
by some unscrupulous soul that apparently scared off most of the signers and
in the end only octaviani and bachi signed it not one other bishop
so anyway that's the background and now we can look at how taylor marshall
opens the chapter he says quote when the 1969 novus ordo mise
of benini was unveiled the stalwart french missionary archbishop marcelo fev
gathered 12 theologians to study the liturgy thoroughly unquote now
that's quite a claim that archbishop lefeve
was the mastermind behind the ottaviani intervention
it's the first time i even heard that now if you've listened to track cast 27

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where we discussed the first part of marshall's book then it probably won't
surprise you to learn that marshall doesn't bother to back up his claim so
you're left to do your own research and that's what i did lo and behold
marshall's claim is supported by wikipedia which mentions as its source a
web page by the society of saint pius xii which is the organization lefeve
went on to establish in 1970. so the sspx claims that its founder
archbishop lefeve is behind the ottaviani intervention
well that is strongly disputed for example by father anthony chikata
a former sspx priest who was dismissed in 1983
for being a city of a contest father chikada who first translated the ottaviani
intervention into english many years ago wrote about the origin of the
intervention in an introductory text here is what he said quote in the

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conservative camp were two members of the roman aristocracy
victoria christina guerini and emilia pediconi
both were friends of cardinal ottaviani then retired from his post as prefect of
the holy office and both had wide connections at the
vatican and in other ecclesiastical circles
the ladies used their contacts to bring together a small group of conservative
theologians liturgists and pastors who would prepare
a study of the contents of the new order of mass
cardinal otaviani agreed it is unclear at exactly what point
to revise the study and to present it to paul vi unquote and that is from father
chikanda's book the otavian intervention published in 1992
by 10 books page 2. according to a personal email father chicada wrote me
on june 29th of last year 2019 all archbishop of fav

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really did with regard to the ottaviani intervention
was to ask father gerard de laurier who had written the draft
to translate it into french that's it and you can find this mentioned by the
way in father chicago's more recent book
work of human hands published in 2010 on pages 134 and 135
and we've got that linked in the show notes at treadcast.org just scroll down
to trotcast 28 and then click on that link and you will find
the show notes there so who's right the sspx or father chicato well
strictly speaking i don't know i can't easily verify it independently
however consider this archbishop lefeve himself did not sign the letter
of cardinal zotaviyani in bachi that was presented to paul vi
with the study no other bishop signed it besides those two
although lefeve himself had reportedly said that there were

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600 other bishops ready to sign it well that was before the text was leaked
in the press and so in the end not even lefeve signed it
but all right let's get back to taylor marshall he writes
on the same page quote cardinal ottaviani and antonio cardinal bocce
wrote an introduction to this document and presented the study
to pope paul vi on september 25th 1969 the feast day of saint pius the 10th
yeah september 25th is not the feast of saint pius the 10th
and never was in the traditional roman calendar it's september 3rd
and in the novel sort of calendar it's august 21st
but anyway what marshall says isn't even true
although the letter of otaviani and bachi was dated
september 25th they didn't actually present it to him
until september 29th as follow chicago notes in his 1992 book

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and in his 2010 book then on the page 154 of infiltration
marshall writes quote pope paul vi received the so-called ataviani intervention
coolly the holy see issued a response on november 12
1969 replying that the critical study contained claims that were
superficial exaggerated inexact emotional
and false unquote yeah he got that from wikipedia because the source citation he
gives matches that given by wikipedia it's a french booklet on the new mass but
there's no reference given to the actual vatican document
the quotation must be accurate though because father anibally boonini the
chief architect of the new mass quotes it as well in his memoirs but
also without giving proper citation information in
his book the reform of the liturgy 1948-1975 on page 287

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boonini says that the quote is from a letter written by
cardinal franjos saper to the secretariat of state
at the time saper was the pro prefect of
the congregation for the doctrine of the faith
so it was more of an internal vatican document in any case we know how politics
ultimately responded to the ottaviani intervention
he made some minor changes to the general instruction on the roman missal
which is basically a how-to manual that is included in the front of the missile
and it describes how the new mass is to be celebrated and so on
but he left the rights and the prayers of the new mass precisely
as they were so as far as the new mass before and after the otaviani
intervention is concerned it is exactly the same
all right moving on to chapter 22 of infiltration
it's entitled archbishop lefebvre and the traditionalist

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resistance if based on the title you figure that that must be one heck of a
chapter i have to disappoint you because that chapter is even shorter
than the prior one at just over one page in length nothing much
objectionable in that chapter i only want to mention that once again
one can see that marshall didn't carefully proofread his work
because he says on page 156 that in using the liturgical books of
1962 archbishop lefeve used quote the missile last issued by pope john the 23rd
before he called vatican 2 unquote well not quite marshall meant to say
before john xxiii opened vatican 2 but certainly not before he called it
because he first called it on january 25th 1959
and officially convoked it on december 25th 1961. so not a big deal

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really but here you can see once again just how sloppy marshall is
as though he's in a hurry to get the book finished and he's not really paying
all that close attention to what he's writing
and that's a book he calls his greatest literary
achievement that's frightening for a man who has a phd in philosophy
it's also quite disrespectful to the reader in my opinion
all right the next chapter is entitled resistance to the novus ordo mise
just a few quick things on that on page 159 marshall writes that in 1972
paul vi abolished the quote minor orders of
porter exorcist acolyte and subdeacon unquote now it's true that he abolished
all those but just for the record the subdiaconate is not a minor order
it's part of the major orders just saying on page 160 marshall claims
quote paul paul vi decision to authorize layman as extraordinary ministers of

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holy communion broke with western and eastern tradition which
absolutely forbade anyone but a priest from administering holy communion
unquote that's false it's false to say that absolutely no one
but a priest was ever permitted to administer holy communion
taylor marshall could have simply looked this up in canon law
canon 845 of the 1917 code of canon law says quote the ordinary minister of holy
communion is only a priest a deacon is an extraordinary minister
authorized by the local ordinary or a pastor
granted for grave cause which in case of legitimate necessity
is presumed unquote so there before vatican ii not only priests but also deacons
could literally administer holy communion with the permission of the
local bishop so marshall just doesn't know what he's talking about

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the question is why didn't he bother to look it up
yes that takes some work but when you're writing a book on this topic and are
happy to rake in the dough with each copy sold
then you may just need to spend a few minutes to look stuff up
then on page 161 marshall states quote it is difficult to understand how
pope paul vi would lament the demonic infiltration of the church
while he promoted reforms that encouraged it
and then he quotes paul vi saying we would say
that through some mysterious crack no it's not mysterious through some crack
the smoke of satan has entered the church of god
there is doubt uncertainty problems unrest dissatisfaction confrontation unquote
well how is it difficult to understand that if we're operating on the idea of
infiltration did taylor marshall suddenly forget that

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he was writing a book on the topic of the infiltration of the church
you know what when paul vi said that the
smoke of satan has entered the temple of god
he was probably boasting and even if he wasn't
even if he was expressing surprise that's totally compatible with what an
infiltrator would do first he causes chaos within the organization
and then he plays innocent lamb and and acts all surprised that everything is a
mess it worked for paul vi didn't it ah but you see marshall probably
doesn't want to accept that paul vi was himself an
infiltrator since marshall believes that paul was a true pope
see later on on page 192 he says about john paul ii quote whether one
admires john paul ii or not he was certainly
not an infiltrator of the church unquote well it doesn't work that way you can't

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say the church has been infiltrated look at the fruits and and then the very
individuals most responsible for those fruits get a pass
because you'd rather not say that they were some of those infiltrators you're
denouncing such a thesis simply can't be taken seriously
and in holding it i think marshall is once again showing himself to be little
more than a storyteller a man who's using his name face and influence
to direct other people's minds in a particular predetermined direction
regardless of what the facts actually are next is chapter 24 on the infiltration
of the vatican bank under paul vi we can pretty much skip over that
marshall mentions that paul vi mysteriously hired the freemason and
mafioso michaelis and dona as a financial advisor and says that this
quote points to deep free masonic infiltration in the corridors of the

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vatican by 1968 three years after vatican ii unquote he says that on pages 166
and 167 yeah it really does point to masonic infiltration and it points
to the idea that perhaps paul vi was one of the infiltrators himself
but of course it sounds better if you attribute it
to mystery instead right you've probably heard it before paul vi was an enigma
you know i i don't think there is much mystery there if you suppose
that he tried to wreck the church while retaining the occasional appearance of
piety orthodoxy and sincerity then there really isn't much mystery left
next chapter 25 infiltration and the mysterious death of
john paul the first sloppy proofreading can be found on page 174
where marshall writes that the money the vatican lost

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is nothing to sneeze it instead of sneeze at chapter 26 is on john paul ii
on page 180 marshall claims that during the second conclave of 1978
the one that elected carol voitiwa that quote
the conservative cardinal siri agreed to support
voitiwa unquote now that's quite a claim and as usual marshall fails to provide
any evidence for it but that made me curious
and so i started to dig a bit marshall relates all these details about what
happened during the conclave but nowhere does he tell you where he
got his information from but it gets better on page 180 he writes
that there's a rumor that john paul ii had first wanted his
papal name to be stannislaus the name of a polish saint and he puts a
footnote there it's footnote 124 in the book

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and that footnote has a reference to the article
of foreign pope in time magazine of october 30th 1978
page one the problem is that article i looked it up does not mention anything
about john paul ii wanting to pick a different papal name
so here marshall finally does mention a source in a footnote
and then it turns out that the source doesn't even mention
what he implied it does and as for cardinal siri supporting voitiwa
well here's what that time magazine article a foreign pope
says about that quote when genoa's giuseppe cardinal siri
the front-runner at the start of the conclave was asked what he thought of
john paul ii's inaugural message delivered only half an hour earlier
he snapped peevishly i can't remember what he said unquote no folks

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cardinal siri was no supporter of john paul ii in the conclave
who knows where marshall got that idea from
it's evident though that he didn't read the source which he put as footnote 124.
let's move on to page 185. marshall writes quote the 1983 code of canon law
introduced the rule that catholic clergy may administer penance
anointing of the sick and holy communion to christians
in danger of death but not in full communion with the catholic church
provided that they manifest catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and
are properly disposed canon 844 paragraph four unquote actually it's
even worse not even danger of death is required marshall references

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canon 844 paragraph four he should have looked at paragraph three as well
which says quote catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance
eucharist and anointing of the sick illicitly to members
of eastern churches which do not have full communion with the catholic church
if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed this is also
valid for members of other churches which in the judgment of the apostolic sea
are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments
as these eastern churches unquote so marshall's greatest literary achievement is
once again found wanting on pages 185 and 186 he talks about how john paul ii
significantly changed the process of canonization yet once again without any
documentation remember whenever a claim is made

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concerning a fact and that fact is not self-evident
then if you give no documentation you're basically
just telling stories they may be true they may be false
the reader has no way of knowing and so you're not doing him a favor
he has to accept what you say on your mere say so now if you're a recognized
authority on the subject then that's fine then you
can get away with that but taylor marshall
is definitely not an authority on church history
you know this book infiltration could have been such a great work
it could have been a gold mine of well-researched and properly presented
information about the modernist takeover of the catholic church
instead marshall offers this half-baked piece of fluff that gives an initial
appearance of respectability but once you give it a closer look
you realize it's totally shallow and to me it seems like it was simply meant

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to be a tool for marshall to get himself quick name recognition and
influence and credibility in the triad world
while francis is still alive and there's this huge window of opportunity
to reach and influence a lot of people who've had it with francis
that's what i think the primary aim of the book is
and i'm sure taylor doesn't mind it being a cash cow to boot
all right on page 187 marshall talks about the assisi interreligious prayer
for peace abominations and he mentions that the buddhists
placed a buddha on top of the tabernacle which is true and that they burned
incense to it and taylor says emphatically that they did this with
permission from the pope that's a quote but the problem is he he doesn't give a
source to back that up he doesn't show when where how john paul ii gave that

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permission and that would have been really important to to point to because
defenders of john paul say that although john paul ii permitted them to
whatever pray there he would have never allowed them to put a buddha on the
tabernacle had he known that they were going to do that
you can look it up online that's what i did that is what they say
that john paul ii wasn't present in the in that location when that happened
and it wasn't authorized by him so what we have here is par for the
course marshall makes an important claim and doesn't back it up and on top of
that he misspells the phrase dalai lama on the same page making it into
dali lama all right then we come to that one
curious sentence we already mentioned earlier on page 192
marshall proclaims quote whether one admires john paul ii or not

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he was certainly not an infiltrator of the church unquote now that
is a completely unreasonable conclusion to arrive at given all the evidence he
has given in this book up to that point he doesn't
simply say that it's not clear if john paul was himself an infiltrator
or that it's doubtful or whatever he doesn't say that he goes
much further he says he was certainly not an infiltrator
and that's completely unjustifiable i mean at the very least
he would have had to say that you know maybe he wasn't an infiltrator so
how is it that such an unreasonable conclusion is coming
from a phd in philosophy what's going on here did he suddenly lose his reasoning
abilities i doubt it i suspect that he needed to put that in there

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in order to make the publisher happy or maybe opus dei
remember sophia institute press that's the publisher
isn't exactly anti-john paul ii there are conservative novus ordo publisher
in fact they even publish books by opus dei authors
so i think that marshall's claim that uh waitiwa
was certainly not an infiltrator is simply damage control
a sort of disclaimer that he had to put there in order to be allowed to publish
it's definitely not something you would conclude
from reading his book then on page 193 marshall writes that despite drinking
deeply of vatican 2 john paul ii nevertheless quote still retained
the piety of a catholic unquote well okay that's maybe the impression
you would have if you simply accept that his external pious acts at face value

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without evaluating them in their entire context you know against the
assesi abominations and stuff but i think a more perceptive assessment
of john paul ii's apparent piety would be that he simply clung to enough
outward devotions so as to better deceive the masses there you're welcome
next we can skip over chapters 27 and 28 and then it gets interesting in chapter
29 which is entitled infiltration and the plot against
benedict the 16th the funny thing is that this title doesn't reflect the
content of the chapter the chapter isn't about infiltration or
some plot against benedict it's about some of the main things
benedict did he issued three encyclicals published some more in pontificum

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allowing wide use of the latin mass and he tried to reconcile the le feveris
society of saint pius the tenth and rescinded the 1988 excommunications
against the four surviving bishops what that has to do with infiltration
and the plot against benedict xvi is anyone's guess what's clear is that
the chapter is once again ridiculously short two pages in total
but in exchange for that marshall allowed himself only one
egregious typo on page 214 where he writes each another instead of
each other or one another chapter 30 is called infiltration of the vatican bank
and the butler of pope benedict xvi on page 218 marshall speaks of a quote
negative u.s 10.5 million dollar deficit for vatican city unquote yes

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you heard that right a negative deficit hilarious
chapter 31 is entitled infiltration and the election of pope francis
and it starts off on page 223 with a reported vision of the venerable
anne catherine emmerich an augustinian nun of the early 18th and 19th centuries
marshall calls the vision an allocution which is another hilarious howler he
meant of course the word locution not allocution
an allocution is a speech given by the pope
a locution is words or thoughts that are supernaturally communicated
to the intellect on page 225 marshall writes about bergoglio's election on march
13th 2013 quote mission accomplished for the san gallo mafia
at last they delivered to the world a revolution in tiara and cope

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as had been promised by the free masonic document alta vendetta
more than 150 years before unquote what's noteworthy here is that marshall
only says that about the 2013 conclave that elected francis and yet it was the
conclave of 1958 which produced john the 23rd
that set the modernist revolution in motion and it was the conclave of 1963
that gave the world paul vi who approved vatican ii
and gave us the new mass and the whole novel's order religion
the revolution in tiara and cope began in 1958 not in 2013.
by means of vatican 2 john xxiii and paul vi
brought the french revolution into the catholic world
the free masonic ideas of equality liberty and fraternity
were reflected in vatican ii's doctrines and decrees regarding

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collegiality religious liberty and ecumenism
there is your revolution in tiara and cope
francis is just the latest rotten fruit of that revolution and by the way
unlike john xxiii and paul vi francis doesn't even use a tiara
and scopes aren't that great either all right moving on we now get to the
really good stuff chapter 32 the second to last chapter
is entitled solving the current crisis now that's quite an audacious title
because spoiler alert taylor actually solves nothing at all in that chapter
he thinks he does i'll give him that but in fact
in the last chapter 33 he even admits that what he proposes in chapter 32
is just the diagnosis and not the cure not the solution but regardless

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let's have a good look at that chapter now solving the current crisis
marshall brings up all possible positions one could possibly embrace
in response to the infiltration of the catholic church
in that chapter the first position he mentions in critiques
is becoming what he calls a modernist catholic now that's already a completely
unacceptable way of putting it there is no such thing as a modernist catholic
any more than there could be a protestant catholic an aryan catholic a
jansenist catholic or an astorian catholic for instance by
become a modernist catholic martial basically means become
what we call a novus ordo right or more specifically
become a novus ordo who's entirely loyal to francis and all his erroneous and
heretical teachings and ideas so in other words go vatican ii all the way
become a bergolian novel sordo and reject everything pre-vatican 2

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that contradicts that that's one possible response to all this marshall says but
he doesn't recommend it at the same time he doesn't exactly condemn it either
he merely says on page 230 quote most serious and informed catholics
cannot swallow this pill unquote which is an odd way to put it because
that's not an evaluation of the position it's not a judgment instead it's well
it's not a judgment about what you know about the position itself instead
it's a descriptive statement about other now granted
he does go on to say that catholicism can't change can't contradict
itself but he doesn't come right out and say
no this is not an option this is not right this is a betrayal of christ or
something to that effect instead he concludes quote
if one refuses to accept the modernist version of catholicism

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as intellectually dishonest he must find a new narrative unquote
well you know what this isn't about finding a narrative
this is about finding and embracing the truth
and the truth about this we know from first of all
the roman catholic faith and then from what can be known from reason
and from history it's not about finding a narrative
but maybe that was another stipulation from the publisher i don't know
now there's another thing to be pointed out here regardless of how he phrases it
here we all know that marshall holds that if
you follow francis and the vatican ii religion then
then you've contradicted the catholicism of the past
right and that's an impossible position because the church
can't contradict herself well okay but that means that if you accept the

00:35
supposed pope since vatican ii is legitimate then catholicism has refuted itself
because then catholicism does contradict itself see
you can't say on the one hand that catholicism can't ever
change and can't contradict itself and then on the other hand
claim that those supposed popes who did change and contradict it are still
legitimate and valid popes it's just that their teachings don't
count precisely because they do contradict i mean that reduces the idea that
catholicism is unchangeable to a meaningless slogan
the only way out of that is to hold that those apparent popes were
false popes and therefore their teachings don't count
and by the way marshall may think that the way out of this conundrum
is to reject the new teachings and embrace the old ones
but the truth is that if francis and his five predecessors are true popes
well then you could just as well take the opposite approach

00:36
and accept all of the new teachings while rejecting all the prior ones
because those two approaches are actually equivalent in terms of absurdity in
terms of contradicting the very truth marshall himself puts forward
namely that catholicism cannot ever change
i mean think about it if the church can teach error and heresy today
then there's no reason why she couldn't have done so in the past as well
or at any point so it really doesn't matter then
if you stick to the old and reject the new or if you accept the new
and dump the old either way you're saying that the church has misled you
in matters of eternal salvation either now or in the past
and so that would mean that the church then is not the ark of salvation
not the pillar and ground of the truth as saint paul writes in his first letter

00:37
to saint timothy chapter 3 verse 15. marshall's next option that he discusses
is becoming an atheist now since marshall is willing to bring
that up as a possible option not as the correct position obviously
but nevertheless one that some misguided souls might unhappily consider
one would expect that marshall who has a doctorate
in tomistic philosophy that he would just you know take the opportunity and
totally destroy atheism even just in fairly general terms
that he would explain how atheism is totally impossible and
absolutely not an option one can consider
but instead of doing that he writes two sentences
that are supposed to explain why he doesn't think atheism is a viable
option for him here's what he says on page 231 quote for myself

00:38
i cannot accept atheism because i have personally encountered christ
his blessed mother and the saints in my life
i also remain fully convinced of the existence of god
and his full revelation of himself in the incarnate person
of our lord jesus christ unquote that is his answer to the atheist objection
that is utterly pathetic but not only that it is also very dangerous
because it is manifestly weak and subjective marshall doesn't as a tomist would
explain why atheism is objectively impossible and
unworthy of a rational creature instead he dismisses atheism on the grounds of
his own subjective experience that is neo-modernism
in fact that is exactly the kind of stuff francis would say
that it's all about an encounter with christ

00:39
and once you've encountered him you want to share that experience with others
and that's what evangelization is about you want others
to also have that experience that is vatican 2 theology and marshall knows it
he doesn't even attempt to refute atheism here not even in the most general way
he's not telling you why atheism is false or impossible
instead he's telling you what he's personally convinced
of which has nothing to do with anything his response only says something about
himself it doesn't say anything about the error of atheism
so here as a thomist philosopher remember this guy gives online courses
and stuff he uh directs the new saint thomas institute that he found it
here he could have really hit a home run because this is right up his alley here

00:40
he could have used his extensive education to hammer atheism
proving it to be intellectually untenable even even just very briefly
right or he could have referred you he could have referred the reader to other
sources where atheism is refuted at length instead he offers two sentences about
his private experience wow i mean that's almost an invitation to atheism
because he's saying between the lines that there really isn't any way to
refute it he just personally doesn't like it because he's had certain
experiences unbelievable and to further underscore just how serious this is
remember that the first vatican council declared it a
dogma that the existence of god can be proved
by reason alone you can check denzinger 1785 and 1806 and
also the oath against modernism which pope saint pius the tenth

00:41
instituted in 1910 to be sworn by catholic clerics and teachers
that oath includes the following line right at the beginning quote i profess
that god the origin and end of all things can be known with certainty by the
natural light of reason from the created world
see romans 1 19 that is from the visible works of creation
as a cause from its effects and that therefore
his existence can also be demonstrated unquote so what marshall
said there on atheism is utterly disgraceful
and i really don't understand why he did that beats me next
he uh talks briefly about the protestant option
which we're going to skip and then the eastern orthodox option

00:42
on page 232 now for that one marshall mentions as one of the reasons
for rejecting it that quote the orthodox have already
ecclesiastically approved divorce and remarriage and contraception unquote
yeah so if that means that eastern orthodoxy is not the true religion for those
reasons then that would also disqualify the
novel sword religion headed by francis wouldn't it
marshall goes on quote it seems apparent to me
that pope francis actually holds the eastern orthodox position
on the papacy collegiality divorce and the pastoral notion of economia
revamped as being true to conscience unquote does this man have any idea
what he's saying he says it is clear to him
that francis the man he claims is the vicar of christ
the pope of the catholic church that francis

00:43
holds the eastern orthodox view of the papacy
and and of other things i mean hello the eastern orthodox view of the papacy
is that there is no papacy okay they believe that yes there is the
primacy of rome but it's only a primacy of honor of service
of love and not one of jurisdiction over the universal church which is dogma
right so that view of the eastern orthodox is
heresy so according to taylor marshall francis is actually an eastern orthodox
rather than a catholic but hey not to worry he's nevertheless the pope
the head of the catholic church doesn't have to be
a member of the catholic church the pope doesn't have to be a catholic the pope

00:44
doesn't have to believe in the papacy well that's quite the narrative i'd say
all right next we finally come to the topic of say devakantism
taylor marshall explains what he thinks is wrong
with sadavacantism and why he doesn't take that position here's what he says
on page 233 quote the state of akon is told that the papal
conclave of 1958 was irregular since the white smoke and ringing bells
indicated a papal election but no pope appeared on that occasion
they point to this oddity and suspect that cardinal siri was violently elected
but falsely pressured to resign no one knows exactly what happened within the
conclave of 1958 but cedarvacantis resolutely affirmed that cardinal roncalli

00:45
was not validly elected as pope john xxiii
either because he was a freemason and a heretic or because
the election itself was invalid unquote all right look i'm not trying to beat up
on the author here simply because he disagrees with state of accountism okay
i am not opposed to legitimate discussion of issues
but for heaven's sake at least make a bit of an effort to get the basics right
i mean what marshall says here is just idiotic
he's reducing state of accountism to problems with the 1958 conclave
i mean that's part of it and we certainly maintain that you
eventually have to conclude that the election of roncalli
as john the 23rd was invalid or that if it was valid then
that he lost the pontificate at some point thereafter

00:46
but we're not saying of a contest because we suspect someone else was
elected pope or because we just happened to think
that roncalli wasn't violently elected i mean that misses the essence of the
state of akon this argument i'll explain that in a little bit but for right now
let me quote some more from taylor marshall quote
they also note that the third secret of fatima was to be revealed in 1960
and that john the 23rd refused to reveal it because it indicated that he was an
anti-pope or warned the church of an impending false
and heretical council unquote really i don't know what source he's
using for that since of course he doesn't tell us it's not like
everything's footnoted in his book but this is really the first time i've heard
the claim that the third secret of fatima says john the 23rd is an anti-pope
hey maybe it does it certainly could but i've never heard that before and i

00:47
think that if that were a major argument made by state of akandas
i would have come across it at some point
now the idea that the third secret talks about an evil council
yes that is the suspicion many people have not just said of a contests
keep in mind that many of the semi-traditionalists like taylor marshall
believe vatican 2 to have been evil erroneous or even heretical
they just think that john the 23rd and paul the sixth were true popes
nonetheless in any case the third secret of fatima is totally peripheral
to the issue of cedivacantism marshall further quote say devakantism
is attractive because in one swoop all the problems of infiltration
modernism vatican ii paul the six's new liturgies
and a pope kissing a koran disappear unquote
well yeah obviously a lot of problems do disappear

00:48
but not the problem of infiltration it would just mean
that the infiltrators succeeded in usurping ecclesiastical offices
and creating a pseudo-catholic sect masquerading as the catholic church
you know that very false church which marshall himself mentions on page 223
quoting approvingly from aunt catherine emmerich's vision
of may 13 1820 where she says quote i saw how baleful the consequences of this
false church would be unquote and yes that was may 13th
the very day on which our lady of fatima would first appear
in 1917. so marshall himself quotes this as part of the introduction
to his chapter 31 on infiltration in the election of francis
next marshall says quote i have noticed an increasing number of

00:49
young men weary of the effeminacy of the post-conciliar liturgy and doctrine
rallying to sativac autism as a logical calm and stoic solution
to ecclesial chaos unquote okay so the question then is
whether state of akandism is a logical calm and stoic solution to the ecclesial
chaos since vatican ii actually even more so the question is
whether the state of accountism is true and that is ultimately the only question
that really matters you know the mere fact the state of akandism can explain all
the evils heresies and blasphemies from the novels ordo
popes by denying that they were ever real popes
is hardly an argument against state of occultism
and the whole point of taking any position
in this right doesn't even matter which one is because you need to have a
position that can account for what we've been witnessing in accordance

00:50
with catholic doctrine so don't argue and i'm i'm not saying
he's even doing that here although it does seem to me that he's hinting at it
don't argue that because cetera countism does that therefore it can't be right
because well you know that's the easy solution that would actually answer it
oh my goodness next marshall claims that cedarvacantism
originated chiefly in the late 1970s when father gerard de laurier
proposed his material formal thesis also called say deprivationism which
argues that the novel sort of popes were popes materially
but not formally now that gets misunderstood a lot what it basically means
is that they were pope elect but never actually pope in other words they were in
possession of a valid election a valid designation

00:51
to the papacy but never received the papacy because of a voluntary obstacle
preventing it and if i'm not mistaken father gerard de laurier said that that
obstacle was not having the objective intention
to promote the good of the church for instance by intending to teach heresy or
meaning to overthrow the church or whatever not sure exactly uh what he said but
the idea is not to evaluate that position now
um but only to describe that position so people can understand
what he said now the idea of an obstacle preventing what would otherwise occur
by a divine promise is found also for instance in the sacraments
if an unbaptized adult voluntarily receives the sacrament
of baptism but has no supernatural contrition
meaning that he persists in grave sin as he has no intention to give up

00:52
his mortal sins then that baptism is valid but it remains fruitless
that means that the indelible baptismal character
is indeed imprinted on the soul but the man's sins are not forgiven
not his personal sins and not even original sin
so obviously that would be a great sacrilege for such a person
original and mortal sin is forgiven when he receives his first
valid absolution in confession or when he attains to perfect contrition
whichever comes first all right he could not receive baptism again because
baptism was valid the first time and a baptism cannot be repeated
so i just want to mention that as an aside to show
that father gerard's idea regarding an obstacle preventing the papacy from
being received by someone who has been elected to it and accepted

00:53
it is by no means without any kind of theological justification okay now of
course the papacy is not a sacrament and i'm
not saying that there is an equivalence here
but sacred theology does allow reasoning from analogy
and hey father gerrard wasn't just anybody he had
taught at the pontifical lateran university in rome
when pius xii was still pope and apparently he was a papal advisor to the uh
for the dogma of the assumption in 1950 and uh also pius the 12th confessor
for a very short time anyway marshall is oddly imprecise and confusing
in a summary of father gerard's position on page 234 uh marshall writes quote
his hypothesis suggested that paul vi was in fact the pope materially and

00:54
functionally but due to heresy he lacked the formal charism of the papacy
the pope was deprived of something and hence his position
became known as cedar privationism unquote that is marshall's entire explanation
of the material formal thesis readers who aren't already familiar with
it are not going to have the faintest idea what father gorard meant
to say that paul vi was pope materially without explaining what that means
is going to make people draw the wrong conclusion okay
it really just means he had received a valid
designation to the papacy but he was not pope in any way shape or form
he merely had the potential to become pope had he removed his voluntary obstacle
and who knows what marshall means by being pope functionally okay
he doesn't explain and to say that according to the guardian thesis paul vi

00:55
lacked the formal charism of the papacy without elaborating on it is
also going to have people guessing we're talking here about
matter and form as understood in scholastic philosophy and sacred theology
all right next marshall gets to his critique
of city of accountism but notice that up to this point
he really hasn't dealt at all with the essence
of the state of wakanda's argument all he's done
is said something about the 1958 conclave about the third secret of fatima and
about father gerard de laurier's thesis which uh was meant to explain how it is
that the noble sort of popes aren't true popes
so what is the essence of the city of akana's position
well in a nutshell it's this the traditional catholic faith specifically the
teachings about the papacy the church and the magisterium

00:56
cannot be sustained cannot be upheld unless we suppose that the apparent popes
who followed pius xii are not true valid legitimate popes
catholic teaching on the papacy precludes
john the 23rd through francis from doing what they did in their official
capacities but it's not even just about those individuals
more broadly it's ultimately about the entire church
after well over five decades since the council
it's evident that the entire institution that is being run by these modernists
cannot possibly be the roman catholic church the doctrines laws liturgy
and sacramental rights that have been coming from the vatican
since the election of john the 23rd cannot possibly have come

00:57
from true popes or from the catholic church in short the argument is this the
catholic church is indefectable but the vatican ii church has defected therefore
the vatican ii church is not the catholic church
that in a nutshell is the state of akana's argument
now i'm not going to get into the individual proofs here now or the
different ways that that can be argued that's all over the novus ordo watch
website and is also discussed in many other podcasts
but that is the state of iconist position and taylor marshall doesn't address it
at all and of course the question is why not anyway here is marshall's critique
from page 234 quote my objection to state of accountism is twofold

00:58
said of akanas do not present a consistent theological narrative
for the origin of a crisis without a pope
and they also lack a consistent solution for the formal restoration
of the papacy on earth unquote let me stop right there for a moment so
there he is with his narrative again there's no consistent narrative
for the origin of it all well even if that's true
and i'm not saying it is or isn't well that would be of secondary importance
the main question is whether by catholic theology the papal claimants after pius
xii can be true popes whether that's possible that is the question
and whether the establishment that calls itself the catholic church but
teaches all these anti-catholic things is really the catholic church
and if the answer to these questions is no then that's as much of a consistent
narrative as we're going to need i'll say more about that in a minute the

00:59
second objection taylor mentions is that state of akhon is lack a
consistent solution for restoration ah so if you don't know how to cure cancer
you'd better not diagnose the patient with cancer right
yeah that makes a lot of sense you know the diagnosis is determined by
an examination of the patient by the symptoms he exhibits by what the
various tests show and so on it's not determined by whether the doctor knows
what to do about the disease now marshall elaborates he he writes quote
saint of acconduson teaches that from 1958 until around 1980
100 of the cardinals who were present in the 1958 conclave
100 of the bishops and 100 of the lady were duped into submitting to antipopes
and their doctrine without a true pope on earth as a valid rival

01:00
unquote here the very phraseology is odd he says sativa kantism teaches that
well zetavakandism is a diagnosis based on catholic doctrine
it doesn't teach anything he should have said
at the very least that satavacandism appears to imply that
everyone was duped and to be honest if the state of akana's conclusion is
necessary then i don't care what that implies about the cardinals
or the bishops or whomever okay that's not the primary issue
what follows follows it definitely beats accepting francis as pope and then
refusing him submission so you're not tainted by his religion
i think part of the problem here is that we simply don't have
all the facts in my opinion we simply don't know
a lot of things about what happened at the 1958 conclave

01:01
or shortly thereafter who knew what and who did what behind the scenes
and to show you that i'm not just saying that consider for example
whitman senior joseph clifford fenton an orthodox american theologian who
attended vatican 2 to assist cardinal ottaviani
what he wrote in his personal diary after the election
of john xxiii he references a friend of his who told him something
about the 1958 conclave the moniker spelling that he uses is a
reference to cardinal francis spellman of new york here's what monsignor fenton
writes in his diary for november 2nd 1960. quote our maltese friend
who was born in alexandria told us that he saw spelly coming out of the conclave
looking white and shaken unquote now obviously that's not proof of anything

01:02
but my point is that this is one of a number of indicators
that something very sinister took place after the death of popeyes the 12th
and we just don't know a whole lot of stuff yet and we've seen the results
right we can see the fruits and we have to conclude an enemy
has done this so what we do know is that whatever happened accounts for
the situation now with this weird vatican ii church that came into being
after pius the 12th so that's all that's my opinion
okay uh but i think it's a reasonable one and always remember too that we're
talking here about the mystery of iniquity most likely right the devil's
last hurrah so don't don't make the objection that oh you can't explain it all
yeah well no kidding okay the point isn't to be able to explain it all with some

01:03
consistent narrative as marshall seems to think but to explain
as much as possible in accordance with catholic doctrine
whatever we cannot figure out will have to remain shrouded in mystery
now notice i said mystery not contradiction the catholic church is not a human
institution taylor seems to think she is because he
thinks that the church can teach all kinds of garbage and lead her
children astray and when that happens then it's necessary for
individual believers to resist and and get others to resist as well
until the church rescinds all her false teachings and corrupt sacramental rights
that is treating the church like a merely human institution
no different from the anglican church for example
but the roman catholic church is a divine institution

01:04
what the heck happened after pius xii died beats me what we know is
that what emerged after the conclave of 1958 was a strange new church teaching a
strange new religion now that wasn't obvious right away of course
and that's the reason why practically everyone fell for it
and i say practically since i obviously have no way of knowing
what everyone thought or did of course it would be good to be able to
explain exactly what happened and how and
who did and thought what about it and so on but that's more more of a luxury
discussion in my opinion the question isn't what people could or
should have known by 1963 the question is what is obvious now for us in 2020
we have the benefit of hindsight so let's not refuse

01:05
to make use of it on the grounds that we can't then quite explain
what this would mean for the initial years before it all became obvious
in second corinthians 5 7 saint paul writes quote we walk by faith and not by
sight unquote and that is key god will put an end to this mess in his time
how will he restore everything i don't know but then i don't know how god
transubstantiates bread and wine into his body blood soul and divinity either
the virtue of faith does not require or seek demonstration
it accepts divinely revealed truths on the authority of god having revealed them
god cannot lie god cannot be mistaken he said that the gates of hell would not

01:06
prevail against his church he didn't say that you and i would always have
all the answers so when we come to a point where we have to say
i don't know what's going on here i can't explain it
then that's fine assuming of course that we've done
all we reasonably can do in this matter and as long as we adhere to and profess
all of the church's teachings just as they were taught and believed
until the death of pius 12. see if the gates of hell can't prevail against
the catholic church but they have obviously prevailed against the vatican
ii church then the only possible conclusion is
that the vatican ii church is not the catholic church
now that may not be enough of a consistent narrative for taylor marshall
but then the problem is with taylor marshall
okay and it sure beats reinterpreting the church's dogmas about her own

01:07
indefectability and infallibility to the point where they become meaningless
all right back to taylor marshall i noticed
that in the amazon kindle edition of his book he inserted an extra footnote that
refers readers to john salza and robert cisco's book
true or false pope for what he calls a thorough
explanation and refutation of state of accountism
yeah son zanzisko's book was so awesome that they couldn't even get the
distinction between internal and occult heresy right
and their book is so theologically flawed that
one of their own resistance priest the reverend paul kramer
published a massive 676 page response entitled to deceive the elect
got it linked in the show notes anyway that just as an aside and notice

01:08
marshall was happy to include a footnote on where to find a
you know supposedly a refutation an explanation of state of accountism
but he didn't think to do that for refuting atheism very interesting
on pages 234-235 marshall objects to the state of akana's position because
as he argues quote the sudden ecclesial crisis
was not signaled by approximate marian apparition
miracles prophecies by holy priests or signs and wonders
even padre pio of pietro china who spoke regularly with jesus mary
the saints and the holy souls failed to learn
that john the 23rd and paul vi were anti-popes unquote
ah so taylor marshall needs signs and wonders
in order to conclude that francis isn't pope funny that he doesn't need signs or

01:09
wonders to conclude that the catholic magisterium is leading souls to hell
with its teachings or to conclude that a rite of mass
promulgated by the roman pontiff is junk and of course he invokes padre pio
obviously forgetting that no one is obliged
to believe padre pio was a saint or even very holy
now i'm not saying he wasn't holy i'm just saying that
since he was never canonized or beatified by a true pope
no one is obliged to believe in his holiness or to consider him
you know a standard for anything so once again a really lousy argument
from taylor marshall one that relies on emotion and popular piety
rather than on catholic doctrine and his uh argumentation about miracles
and private revelations made me think of luke 16
31 where our lord tells the story of the rich man and lazarus

01:10
quote and he said to him if they hear not moses
and the prophets neither will they believe if one rise again
from the dead unquote you know just just go by pre-vatican ii traditional
roman catholic teaching and if that isn't good enough for you well then
neither will you believe if you know there be signs and wonders about it
on page 235 of infiltration marshall elaborates on his second
objection to state of economism saying quote the second problem with
state of economism is that it lacks a means for restoring the papacy on earth
if there has not been a valid pope since 1958 then there are no valid cardinals
walking the earth hence the canonical process that elected
popeyes the 12th in 1939 and its successors previously is no longer
an option any future papal conclave in accord with canon law

01:11
is now an impossibility unquote here you can tell that marshall has
obviously not done the least bit of research on the subject
else he's deliberately making an argument that he knows to be flawed
that objection is one of the oldest and lamest in the book how do we answer it
we answer it by pointing out that pope pius xii
constitution on how to elect a roman pontiff is of course merely ecclesiastical
law meaning it's human law it's not divine law and such human law automatically
ceases when its fulfillment becomes impossible no i'm not making this up
this is a general principle of law taught by the church

01:12
for instance in the 1957 book canon law a text and commentary by two eminent
canonists fathers lincoln buscarin and adam ellis
both of whom were consulters for the holy see we read on page 35 quote
it is common doctrine that a law ceases to bind without repeal in two cases
first if the circumstances are such that the law has become
positively harmful or unreasonable second if the purpose of the law has
entirely ceased for the entire community unquote
what this means is that pius xii law on how the supreme pontiff
is to be elected namely by the cardinals in conclave
has ceased because there are no more valid cardinals
now what happens when there are no more valid cardinals how will the church

01:13
then elect the pope on that question theologians have been divided and have
written in fairly general terms right there is no definitive guidance or
clear procedure basically the answer given is that the duty to elect a pope
would fall to the clergy of rome since the pope is the bishop of rome
or it would fall to the universal church whose head the pope is
now i don't want to go down that rabbit hole now because
we're not going to get a definitive answer anyway and all i mean to do here is
show how shallow marshall's objection is he didn't bother to look at this issue
in a serious manner and so i also don't feel terribly obliged
to respond to him seriously now it is true that the church must
always have a way to elect or otherwise select a pope
okay that follows from catholic dogma and is contained in vatican one's

01:14
dogmatic constitution pastor eternus which says quote thus then as he
meaning christ sent the apostles whom he had selected from the world for himself
as he himself had been sent by the father so in his church he wished the pastors
and the doctors to be even to the consummation of the
world unquote that's denzinger 18 21. the question is
whether such pastors and teachers must always exist
in actuality or whether it's a phases that they exist potentially
meaning that they can be appointed or elected
that the capability is there even if for the moment
there is no consensus on how it would be done
now this is obviously a difficulty with state of accountism
okay it's not a contradiction but it's a difficulty
but whatever the case may be you don't solve this conundrum
by saying that therefore francis is the pope

01:15
you just can't accept his magisterium or his saints
or his annulments or his laws or anything else you don't think
jibes with pre-vatican ii teaching that is definitely
not the way to solve it so let me state this clearly
just because you don't know what the correct answer is
to a given problem doesn't mean you cannot know what is not the correct answer
simple example imagine you have a multiple choice math test
and the problem you're asked to resolve is what is 456 divided by 19.
well without using a calculator you may not know
whether the right answer is 24 26 or 34 okay but
you do know that the right answer is not 220 okay so

01:16
that's pretty much what we're dealing with here
taylor marshall is complaining that state of accountis can't demonstrate
whether the answer is 24 26 or 34 so therefore it must be 220.
i mean that's just utter baloney so in short the difficulty of restoring a pope
does not validate a man we know cannot be the pope it's not that difficult
so marshall concludes on page 235 quote since sativacanus cannot produce a
consistent origin narrative and cannot provide a means by which the
current crisis will be resolved with a future valid and orthodox pope
it is an untenable theological position it is broken at both
ends unquote actually it's not broken at both ends it merely

01:17
contends itself with diagnosing the situation in light of catholic doctrine
and then letting the chips fall where they may
but notice that there's one thing taylor skipped over entirely
and that is the answer given by say to privationism
the material formal thesis he brought it
up in that chapter as being the position advanced by
father gerard de laurier he never refuted it and then he completely ignored the
solution it provides for how to get a pope because that is perhaps
the best part about the material formal thesis
it gives you a very easy and very clean solution to the problem of getting a new
pope i won't get into the details of it but i do want to outline it for you
now please don't rush to judgment about this because there is
very strong theological support in favor of this position

01:18
there are also some difficulties with it and i'm basically neutral on the issue
okay i i don't endorse it neither do i condemn it
in my experience though most of the people who reject it have not quite
understood it or are not aware of the evidence in favor of it
in terms of pre-vatican 2 theology anyway so how would we get a true pope
under the material formal thesis well the long and the short of it is
that according to this thesis the novus ordo cardinals
although they are not true cardinals are nevertheless valid electors of the pope
and have the power to elect a valid pope the only requirement would be that the
man they pick be actually a catholic and not you know a modernist or some other
public heretic that would solve the problem wouldn't it

01:19
that is that that would be a very clean very easy solution all things considered
and taylor marshall doesn't address this at all he could totally ignores it
although he did bring up the say depravationist thesis a page or two earlier
so he wanted to talk about sata privationism he did not want to hear
uh zeta probationism's answer though to his challenge on how to get a new pope i
find that very interesting all right i'm going to put
links by the way into the show notes for where you can find an elaborate
explanation for the material formal thesis so that
you can see for yourself that this isn't made up okay this isn't just like a
a convenience-based idea to provide an easy answer to get out of conundrum
it's actually founded solidly on catholic philosophy
and theology but again the point here is
not whether this thesis is true or false the point
is that taylor marshall brings it up and then totally ignores

01:20
the solution it provides all the while blasting said avocados
for not having a solution epic fail on marshall's part [Music]
all right next marshall discusses the resignationist position
that is the position of those who say that benedict xvi
is the true pope because so they claim he never
resigned validly and uh we're going to skip that
and go straight to his defense of the recognize and resist position starting
on page 239 and boy is there a lot to say about that
but you know what before we go there let's finally take a quick break so we
can breathe a little bit we'll be right back it's not just a podcast

01:21
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01:22
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01:23
track cast [Music] and here we are back again with more
of our evaluation of taylor marshall's greatest literary accomplishment
infiltration the plot to destroy the church from [Applause] [Music] within

01:24
[Music] continuing with chapter 32 we're now on page 240
where marshall writes quote since no pope since 1950
has exercised his extraordinary magisterium by declaring anything infallibly
excathedra the catholic may in good faith and conscience
resist errors spoken by a pope on twitter on an airplane or even in a papal
document unquote you know marshall at times
writes like a sophomore in high school there is so much
wrong with what he just said is unbelievable
first there is the unstated premise that only those things
are obligatory on the catholic conscience that are defined
infallibly ex cathedra as though the non-infallible magisterium
were not binding or only binding insofar as each believer thinks
that the pope didn't make a mistake and of course when a catholic

01:25
does come to the conclusion that the pope got it wrong why
then obviously the individual's position prevails over that of the pope right
so that would mean that the pope teaches bindingly only when he agrees with you
well whom are you really following then the pope
or yourself second martial is lumping it all together
magisterial document airplane interview twitter comment
i doubt that he means that france's tweets and interview comments are just
as magisterial as his official documents third
marshall says that a catholic may resist what he believes to be errors
in papal teaching but may implies that one doesn't have to in other words
marshall is saying it is perfectly fine to accept france's errors
just as it is fine to resist them did he really mean that

01:26
i doubt it but it's what he's saying so although he argued earlier in the
same chapter that it's not theologically tenable
to accept the errors of francis and vatican ii
here he's now implying that it's just fine to do exactly that if you prefer
and if you want to say that no that's not really what he means here
he really means you're not allowed to embrace francis erroneous teachings
then okay fine but then he's saying that following the non-infallible papal
magisterium can lead you to losing the faith and that contradicts the perennial
catholic teaching on the papacy that we've shared
so many times on this podcast program for those not familiar
i'll put a link in the show notes then marshall says that uh what he just
said about resisting francis also holds true for resisting vatican ii

01:27
and he repeats the same truncated quotes from paul vi
uh that he had already quoted dishonestly in chapter 19 on page 143
and once again he leaves out any ellipsis points
so the reader can't tell that stuff has been left out
now if you'd like to hear my extensive commentary on that it's
discussed towards uh the very end of tradcast
27 which you can find at triadcast.org basically what marshall does is he
quotes paul vi from the closing speech of the fourth session
of vatican ii on december 7th 1965 and then he quotes paul vi from an
audience he gave in january of 1966. in both cases paul vi
mentions that vatican ii did not include any extraordinary papal pronouncements
no infallible excathedra definitions so marshall concludes triumphantly

01:28
on page 240 quote since vatican ii did not bear the mark of infallibility
or the extraordinary magisterium a catholic can claim without impiety
that the council may have contained mistakes unquote
the problem here is twofold for one thing marshall doesn't quote the entirety of
what paul vi said he truncates the sentences cutting
them off before they're finished and he cuts them off because the rest of
what paul vi says contradicts the recognize and resist position that marshall's
promoting i'm not going to give you the full quotes again now you can
listen to them in trot cast 27 but basically paul vi was saying that even though
vatican ii didn't make any infallible pronouncements nonetheless
its teaching is authoritative and binding coming from the supreme
ordinary magisterium and it must be accepted by

01:29
all the faithful with docile submission taylor marshall didn't think it was
necessary to let you know about that part then the second problem with taylor
using these statements by paul the sixth is that they contradict his own
recognize and resist position and principle
keep in mind marshall's whole position is that
vatican ii is not binding because it's not infallible
but then in the same breath he's telling you that paul vi
comments in his closing speech and at a general audience after the council
somehow those are binding those are authoritative
i mean he doesn't say that but he does treat them that way
so when paul vi invokes his supposed apostolic authority
to declare that man has a right to religious liberty
in virtue of his human nature then taylor marshall says

01:30
no worries that's not binding resist it but when the same paul vi gives a
closing speech or an address at a general audience without
invoking any apostolic authority and says that vatican ii
didn't make any infallible pronouncements marshall runs with that
and takes it as justification for dismissing
anything from vatican 2 he doesn't agree with even though paul vi
added that of course the teachings of vatican ii are nevertheless binding
ladies and gentlemen this is not catholic theology
this is not even serious debate this is shysterism and marshall is the shyster
if i were a novel sorter or a semi-triad who bought infiltration thinking it to
be a serious piece of research i'd demand my money back
now we're still not quite done yet marshall continues
his pathetic argumentation in favor of the recognize

01:31
and resist position on page 240 he writes quote the terminology of resistance
derives from the latin vulgate version of saint paul's language
and his epistle to the galatians 2 11. i'm going to skip the latin here when
however kephas came to antioch i resisted him to his face because he
was to be blamed here saint paul recognizes the authority of kaphas
saint peter as a valid and true pope but still resists him
in defense of the gospel unquote man i i really don't know where he comes
up with that stuff first what he quoted from galatians
only contains the word resist and not the word recognize
so his argument isn't even properly supported
second if i'm not mistaken the origin of the term

01:32
recognize and resist is the state of accountist father chikada
i think he came up with that descriptive moniker for the
non-state of akana's traditionalist position
in any case it's very lame for marshall to bring up galatians 2 11 at this point
and then not even make a serious argument and that has been answered
so many times i'm just going to refer uh people who have not yet seen the city
of akanas responds to that argument to our blog post of june 14th 2018
entitled the saint paul resisted saint peter to his face objection
which is linked in the show notes for this episode
marshall ends chapter 32 by saying on pages 241 and 242
quote i trace out each of these positions in charity with a firm belief
that this final recognize and resist position
is the only solution that conforms to scripture tradition

01:33
and our contemporary crisis the catholic church
has been infiltrated all the way to the top
we have a valid pope and valid cardinals
but we have received the mantle of saint athanasius
and saint catherine of siena to call respectfully and reverently
certain spiritual fathers back to christ and the unadulterated apostolic faith
unquote you know i don't recall taylor demonstrating that he's received the
mantle of saint athanasius and saint catherine of siena i mean
anyone can say that right including luther jansen arius queznel
feeney dolinger but that comment right there reveals what he really believes
which is that the holy see is no longer the guarantor of the catholic faith but
is now the purveyor of an adulterated faith

01:34
and that you must now turn to another source
one in opposition to the holy see to get the true faith
but don't worry it's a reverent opposition
and that is what he claims is rooted in scripture and tradition
wow well here's something from popeyes x listen to this
quote in this one church of christ no man can be or remain who does not accept
recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of peter
and his legitimate successors unquote that's from pius xi encyclical mortalium
animals number 11. did you catch it the pope said
recognize and obey not recognize and resist

01:35
alright the last chapter of infiltration is number 33 entitled spiritual weapons
against demonic enemies although marshall had just claimed in
the closing paragraph of the prior chapter that recognize and resist is the
solution to it all he now proclaims on page 243 quote
holding to a reverend recognize and resist position is not enough
this is the diagnosis not the medicine unquote aha so it's a diagnosis
now he just said that it was the solution and he chastised said of a contest for
not having a solution we're the ones who point out that state of akhandism is
above all a diagnosis but at least it's the correct diagnosis the cure for it
is another matter and in my opinion god is withholding that cure from us
in order to keep us from thinking that one of us a mere man

01:36
can fix this because that man would then be
the savior of the church you know and as we all know
there's only one savior of the church jesus christ
this last chapter in infiltration is basically just a call to
spiritual fortification and perseverance nothing wrong with that in principle
obviously but you can't help but notice some inconsistencies
for instance on page 244 taylor writes quote we must also attack with
sound catholic doctrine and be on guard against
all heresy and schism within our ranks unquote okay sounds good sounds good
right but considering his recognize and resist position
the question that inevitably arises is does the sound catholic doctrine that he

01:37
wants to attack with does that include the living papal magisterium or not
and if not that means that he's refusing
submission to the man he acknowledges as pope and that is the very definition
of schism which he just said we must also guard against
is your head spinning yet ladies and gentlemen we've come to the
end of the chapters now there follow a number of appendices
one of them is a who's who in the book which is pretty useful because he
you know does mention a lot of names and it's it's nice to be able to look them
up in the back now whether everything he says there is
accurate is another matter so for instance he writes on page 259
about john paul ii quote while he supported the reforms of the second
vatican council he was generally seen as doctrinally conservative
and he upheld the church's traditional teachings

01:38
unquote you have got to be kidding which is it did he support vatican 2 or
did he uphold the traditional teachings i have a suspicion that taylor phrased
it that way to please the publisher but that's just a suspicion john paul
ii most certainly did not teach traditional catholicism
he was a huge proponent of the errors of vatican ii
he introduced the disgusting theology of the body
he advanced the apostate theology that underlies the assisi interfaith prayer
meetings and so on even many of the good positions he held
were tarnished by his false philosophy and theology
so for instance his opposition to abortion would be based more on the dignity of
man rather than on the law of god or his limited endorsement of the
traditional latin mass was based on respect for the feelings of

01:39
the people who had a nostalgic attachment to it etc so it's it's completely
unjustifiable for him to say that john paul ii
upheld the traditional teachings it's pathetic
now ladies and gentlemen if you've made it this far
in the podcast let me ask you what do you now think of taylor marshall's book
infiltration the publisher sophia institute press calls it a
carefully documented book how is that not a flat out lie
but hey at least marshall was able to get the forward written by
bishop athanasius schneider now i have to say that going through
this book was very tedious but i figured you know someone's
going to have to take one for the team here and let the air out of this totally

01:40
inflated hack job and i'm not the only one by the way okay of course
there are other people as well who've reviewed the work critically
and one of them is kevin simons a conservative novel zordo
who is a very thorough and serious researcher he released two pdf files with his
findings and he's much more detail-oriented than i've been
in these podcasts of course simon's critiques of infiltration are linked in
the show notes which you can access at tradcast.org
again you just scroll down to trapcast28 and click on that link and that will
open the page with all the information that you need
and that includes links to more critical reviews
of marshall's infiltration by other writers to complement my review here
and these people are not even say to a contest
all right so also i want to be clear i'm not saying that i agree with

01:41
everything that is mentioned in those reviews okay i just want to
uh link them because i think they're worthwhile overall
and provide some food for thought now i'm also going to list and link in
the show notes some of the video interviews marshall did when his book came out
this way you can see how he promoted his own work
now that you know how shoddy it is interestingly enough
michael voris has since deleted his video interview with marshall
i'm guessing that's because marshall ended up endorsing the sspx
but we'll link the page anyway so you can see that
for yourself you can see that it's been removed
by the way the call me jorge blog released a post on april 2nd of this
year entitled infiltration who is really doing it
and there the blogger presents a taylor martial timeline
chronologically reviewing the milestones in marshall's life

01:42
his associations with various groups and individuals
especially opus dei uh books he's published and so on all publicly accessible
information and uh he wonders if marshall is perhaps not
himself part of the infiltration of the church that would explain why he doesn't
mention the role of opus dei in this book at all
ladies and gentlemen you've been very patient in suffering through this with me
and i'll have you know that patience is rewarding
because of course i've kept the best for last yeah marshall
released his book on may 31 2019 that's when it began to be sold in
stores and especially on amazon.com now i knew something was off when in
less than 24 hours infiltration already had a solid 5 star rating on amazon

01:43
based on a total of over 800 reviews yes we've got the screenshots to
prove it check the show notes now how's that possible how do you get
that many reviews virtually all of them positive on the day of release
well taylor found a way here is how he did it he used a so-called launch team
now it's a smart idea to assemble a few people who will help you promote your
new book in various places especially online by making people aware of it
answering questions pointing out what a great read it is
and so forth that's basically advertising nothing wrong with that in principle
but taylor did way more than that for one thing
he didn't recruit just a few individuals he recruited
a massive number of people in the back of his book

01:44
there's a section entitled a special thanks to our launch team
and that section lists the names of the people who read an advanced copy of the
book and help promote it now can you guess
how many names are listed there no you can't
it's a total of eight and a half pages of names
in small print i found a way to count them
ladies and gentlemen he's got the names of 2024 individuals printed as being
part of his launch team and you know what those are only the
names of those who agreed to have their names printed
those who didn't want their names mentioned and helped anyway
are not included in the list unless marshall made it a requirement to have
your name printed in the book if you're on this launch team
which i can't imagine he would do makes no sense so 2024 known

01:45
launch team members now compare that to only 176 footnotes in the book
that's 11 and a half launch team members for each footnote
if only he'd had that many researchers helping him
so the question presents itself how did marshall get
such an army of people for his launch team well i can tell you how on april 3rd
2019 taylor published a post on his blog at taylormarshall.com the post was
called dr taylor marshall's infiltration launch team
the post has since been removed but don't worry you can find a saved copy
in the show notes i'm not making this up the post was an application form to be
on his launch team here's what the introductory text says quote
thank you for wanting to join our launch team for infiltration
the plot to destroy the catholic church from within

01:46
we are looking for 200 launch team advanced readers who are
one willing to read a private do not share
advanced copy of the book in pdf format two
give us feedback three write a review of infiltration on amazon.com
for and help promote it when it debuts on may 20th 2019 tentative publish date
if we select you then your name will be printed on the last page of the book
with a thank you from me if you are willing to help me promote
the book please fill in the forms below and we will notify you within the week
if you have been selected godspeed taylor marshall unquote
the application consisted of nine questions people were requested to answer
including the following are you willing to read your advanced digital copy of
infiltration book in under one week so that you have it read before it goes to

01:47
the public are you willing to write a review of infiltration book
on amazon.com and not in the form of a question applicants can
select yes or no as to whether they are willing to promote
infiltration on social media through facebook instagram
twitter or by emailing friends so how does this get tailored hundreds
of overwhelmingly positive reviews on amazon
it's not like he told anyone what to write in the review
or what rating to give his book true enough but there really was no need to tell
people that since he was obviously going to choose for his launch team
only those applicants who answered that they were committing to promoting his
book which implies that they're not going to give it a bad rating
and presto there was taylor's army of positive amazon reviewers and since they
got an advanced copy and promised to read the book within one week

01:48
it was clear that they would have their reviews ready by launch day
which ended up being may 31st and although he said that he was
recruiting only about 200 people given the number of names printed in the
book it turned out to be over 10 times that many so that's how he
ended up getting over 800 reviewers on day one and as of now
mid july 2020 the book has a total of 1742 reviews
showing a solid five stars with an average rating of 4.8 stars
now last year one of the taylor martial launch team members
contacted nova's order watch and forwarded a bulk email that taylor had
sent to every team member requesting that when they write their amazon review
to please not say that they received an advance copy now why might that be

01:49
the tailor perhaps not one prospective buyers of his book to see that virtually
all of the reviews being posted in the first few days are
by people whom he recruited to write reviews for him that would look rather
inglorious wouldn't it look if nothing else taylor marshall is clever
hey there's a reason why the number one interpersonal skill that people have
endorsed him for on linkedin is fundraising i'm not kidding
check the show notes for a screenshot now if i'm not mistaken what marshall
did there with his strategically procured amazon reviews
is a practice called astroturfing according to dictionary.com the definition of
astroturfing is quote the deceptive tactic of simulating grassroots support

01:50
for a product cause etc undertaken by people or organizations
with an interest in shaping public opinion
unquote yep i think that would qualify so no wonder infiltration quickly became
a bestseller on amazon reaching number one in catholicism on launch day
now the question i have is why why did taylor marshall write this book
a work so poorly researched and written and yet marketed like a pro why
i don't know the answer but let's look at
what dr marshall has achieved with this book so far
number one he must be making a killing on it
considering how well it's been selling it's safe to assume
that he's made a good amount of money on it number two
it's given marshall an immense amount of name recognition
he's a star everyone in the conservative novus ordo and semi traditionalist camp

01:51
now knows taylor marshall he's been interviewed by a lot of people
faith goldie michael voris john henry weston mike church
he's even been on tv on fox business discussing the book with lauren green
and of course he just recently appeared on one american news
and gave an interview there and that triggered a tweet from
president donald trump who quoted taylor saying
that there is a war on christianity and in response to that taylor sent a tweet
thanking the president and including of course
a link to his book on amazon for more sales
number three lastly and i think this is the most important benefit for him
with the name recognition there comes the power to
influence that in my opinion is ultimately the motive behind the book
and i suspect that opus dei is ultimately behind it and
taylor was just chosen to be the front man

01:52
by publishing infiltration and getting so many positive reviews and
having his face all over the conservative novus ordo and semitrad websites
marshall receives the power to influence countless souls with his ideas
and that means he can help shape and direct what people are thinking
about francis about vatican 2 about the novels ordo church and of
course also about city of accountism so to conclude my review let me issue a
challenge to taylor marshall considering how bad the quality of the
content of his book is how little serious research was put into it
how poorly it was proof read how sorely it's lacking in proper documentation
and considering how dishonestly it was advertised
i challenged taylor marshall to do two things
number one disclose how much money he has made on the book

01:53
so far and number two donate five percent of those profits to a charitable cause
that both he and i can agree on look five percent is not a terribly huge amount
but i think it will be quite appropriate given everything that's wrong with this
greatest literary accomplishment of his now we've spent two long podcasts going
through infiltration and looked at many things in it
that are wrong misleading improperly sourced
and so forth but there are also a number of things that are simply missing from
the book things that you would expect to see given that the aim is to expose
the infiltration of the catholic church for instance there is no mention
whatsoever of the book the plot against the church by maurice pinay
published in 1962 a copy of that book was given to every bishop
that attended the second vatican council to inform them

01:54
about the free masonic communist jewish infiltration into the church and their
revolutionary plans to no avail obviously but still that's significant
and needs to be included in a serious book about the infiltration
of the church we've got a link to that book in the show notes
likewise marshall could and should have mentioned
franco bellagrandi's book nikita roncali counter life of a pope which was
released in 1994 and caused quite a stir at the time the
book is about john the 23rd and in it bellagrandi a former member of the
vatican noble guard relates how count paulo cella of monte luce
told him about an encounter he had a few days before the 1958 conclave
with the high free masonic authority in touch with the vatican
who told him that cardinal siri would not be the next pope

01:55
because the masons had already picked roncalli
and that they had their representatives in the conclave
and the church was in their hands i'd say that's pretty significant to
mention isn't it even if you don't believe that it's true it's still
the testimony released by a vatican insider
and he wasn't even a state of a contest to my knowledge
so move over saint galin mafia okay the real takeover occurred in the
conclave of 1958 not that of 2013. also marshall made no mention of patrick
henry amlar and his booklet questioning the validity of the masses using the new
all english canon published in 1968 after the first vernacular masses had
been introduced even before the full novulsarto mise in october of 1967.

01:56
those masses had already changed the words of consecration
to such an extent that they were now invalid or at the very least
highly doubtful another thing marshall doesn't talk about is the controversy
about whether sister lucia fatima was replaced around 1960 by an imposter
now there's ample scientific evidence for that from
real professionals in their fields who stand behind their evaluations with
their names and reputations all of which you can review at the
sister lucy truth website at sisterlucytruth.org
marshall also doesn't bring up the famous article how the jews changed
catholic thinking by joseph roddy which appeared in look magazine in january
of 1966 just after vatican 2 closed nor does he mention the book
judaism in the vatican an attempt at spiritual subversion by leon de ponsons

01:57
same for the book the new montanian church by father hoa kin
science iariaga published in 1972 there is so much more that marshall
could have discussed but it seems obvious to me that
substance based on solid research with good documentation
that was not the aim of this book infiltration is closer to tabloid journalism
than it is to academic study and for a phd in philosophy
that is inexcusable and it's a pity because this could have been a really
great book even if the author ultimately didn't decide in favor of satellitism
it could have still been great research and great content
on everything else but i guess not by the way on twitter taylor has blocked
nova sorto watch which means now i can't see what he tweets and

01:58
he doesn't really see my tweets either and that's not an unusual thing to do i
mean i've blocked a few accounts myself usually it's people who are just
nuisance or who try to waste my time by distracting me
or just accounts that are blasphemous or immoral in other ways
but i want to mention why i got blocked by taylor marshall because i think it's
revealing i don't recall the date anymore unfortunately
and i do have a screenshot of the tweet that i'm going to put in the show notes
but it doesn't show the date but in any case it was some time
not too long after the release of his book when he was
you know heavily promoting his greatest literary accomplishment
and so one day he tweeted out the following quote if you're in new york city i'd
love to meet you i plan to attend solemn high mass at holy innocence
this sunday unquote to which i responded something like

01:59
what taylor really means is that he would love for you
to meet him and that is what got me blocked yeah i must have hit a nerve so
is marshall himself an infiltrator into the church
or into what he thinks is the church i don't know
i doubt it i suspect he's more of a useful idiot being played by opus dei
for their nefarious ends but whether he is or isn't an infiltrator
one thing is for sure if you purchased a copy of infiltration
thinking it to be a well-researched and thoroughly documented work exposing the
internal subversion of the catholic church then taylor marshall has definitely
succeeded in infiltrating your wallet and this concludes this lengthy trapcast

02:00
28 hope you found it informative and useful please don't forget to share it with
others because the truth as our blessed lord said

02:01
will set us free until next time god bless you [Music] [Applause] [Music]
track cast