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and now coming to you from an undisclosed location
it's the novos Ordo watch track cast [Music] you can't make this stuff up
[Music] thank you you know these days a lot of people
think there's a need for artificial intelligence
now I don't know about you but I think a lot could be accomplished if we could

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just have a little more natural intelligence [Music] thank you
hello and welcome friends and foes of trentcast
the traditional Roman Catholic podcast that does not cling to be more Catholic
than the Pope only more Catholic than the antipope [Music] [Applause] [Music]
[Applause] this is episode number 35 and we'll get right down to business
[Music] when you put together a podcast like
this you always ask yourself what's the best topic or story to start with and
that's not always an easy decision because if you pick the wrong thing and
people don't find it interesting or relevant to them they might just turn

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off the thing altogether and then they won't hear the rest of the podcast
either can't really blame them so I'm really taking a risk here
starting with a rather sensitive subject but it's important the controversy
regarding the consecration of the Holy oils for the Society of Saint Pius X at
the chrism mass of Holy Thursday in Germany
now normally that would be a non-issue right one of the sspx Bishops conducts
the ceremony and the holy oils are consecrated that's what happened for
example here in the United States where sspx Bishop Alfonso de galloretta
consecrated the oils at St Thomas Aquinas seminary in Virginia
but in Germany it wasn't an sspx Bishop conducting the ceremony it was Vedas

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juander who is the former novos Ordo Bishop of core Switzerland
he retired in 2019 and decided to basically join the sspx not as a member
but he decided to live at one of their houses and to collaborate with them and
help them where needed wander had been appointed a close
contact for the sspx by Rome by the Vatican years prior in order to get to
know them and have a better relationship with them for the purposes you know of
dialogue and eventually getting them regularized I guess in the Vatican II
Church but as he was reading their material and
pouring over their arguments wander says he became convinced that they're
basically right and so that is why he is now with them

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now what does that have to do with the consecration of the Holy oils
well the problem is that wander was ordained a bishop in 2007 in the novus
ordo Rite of Paul VI that was originally published in 1968 and that right is not
just doubtful but certainly invalid which means that he who has consecrated
a bishop in that right does not actually become a bishop
despite appearances the sacrament is not conferred and we'll talk about the the
issues with the validity of that right a bit later
what that means is that wander is not a bishop but remains what he was before
Amir Layman or perhaps a priest he was ordained in the doubtful Noble's Ordo

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right for the priesthood in 1971. so when the sspx announced on its German
Seminary calendar that the consecration of the Holy oils would be presided over
by Bishop wander that was cause for alarm for the first time ever at least
to my knowledge the sspx allowed a novosordo prelate to consecrate the holy oils
now you might say what's the big deal the holy oils are only sacramentals and
not sacraments so even if they're not validly consecrated what is the problem
well the problem is that at least two of the three types of oil that are
consecrated during the chrism mass of Holy Thursday are part of the necessary
matter of the sacraments of Confirmation and extreme unction respectively
and anyone can look this up in any pre-vatican II treatment of the
sacraments let me quote from father Nicholas Halligan from his book the

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administration of the sacraments page 84. he is speaking of confirmation here
quote the matter of this Sacrament is chrism
or olive oil mixed with Balsam which is consecrated by a bishop on the last
preceding Holy Thursday and with which by an imposition of the hand the
forehead is Anointed in the form of a cross
this chrism must be used and in the way prescribed even by a simple priest who
legitimately confirms it is necessary for validity that the matter used be
pure olive oil mixed with Balsam when the amount of chrism is too far
diminished other olive oil should be added to it even repeatedly but in a
lesser quantity it is never allowed to administer
confirmation without chrism or to receive the chrism from heretical or

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systematical Bishops the making of the sign of the cross
while anointing with the chrism is necessary for validity
no instrument may be employed in the anointing but the right hand itself four
fingers is directly laid on the head and the anointing made with the right thumb
to use any finger even of the left hand other than the right thumb in the
anointing without justifying cause would be a venial sin but not invalidating
validity requires only the imposition of the hand which accompanies the unction
and not the extension of the hands at the beginning or end of the ceremony
unquote I've deliberately quoted everything he
wrote on the matter of confirmation including a lot of detail that isn't
directly relevant to the wander controversy and the reason I did that is

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to demonstrate how seriously the church considers these details that are
necessary for or that help Safeguard validity and we'll return to that later
next let me quote father Halligan regarding
the matter of the sacrament of extreme unction in the novel sorto it's called
anointing of the sick its last rights is what we're talking about
before I do that though let me just explain what the three types of oil are
or rather what they're called because this is going to be relevant now for
extreme unction so we already heard about sacred chrism
which is used in confirmation it's also used in baptism for example
and in Episcopal consecration but there it's not necessary for validity
next there is What's called the oil of catechumens and then there's the oil of

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the infirm or oil of the sick and with that let's listen now to Father
Halligan explain what is the necessary valid matter for the sacrament of
extreme unction quote the valid matter of extreme
unction is olive oil duly blessed for this purpose by a bishop or by a priest
who has obtained The Faculty to do so from the apostolic sea
even in the case of necessity this blessed oil must be used although for
lawfulness it must be pure and a mixture of extraneous matter renders it invalid
if it is no longer olive oil if the supply of blessed oil
oil of the infirm becomes too diminished other olive oil may be added even
repeatedly but in a lesser quantity although it is not certain that the oil
of the infirm alone renders the administration of extreme unction valid

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in practice and outside of necessity the proper oil of the sacrament is to be
used in the case of necessity and in the
absence of the proper oil the oil of the infirm another sacred oil oil of
catechumens or sacred prism may be employed under a condition but the
sacrament must be later conditionally repeated with the proper oil unquote
again this is from the administration of the sacraments by father Nicholas
Halligan and uh this was just from page 344 and a link to this book is available
in the show notes just go to trapcast.org and scroll down to
trotcast35 click on that link and that will get you to the show notes
so again we see just how much care the church insists upon to ensure that a

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Sacrament is administered validly the church is very meticulous in that matter
and here we're talking about extreme unction which is extremely important for
persevering in Grace until death which very often is imminent for those
who receive extreme unction so with all of that it's pretty clear
what's at stake here confirmation and extreme unction are the two sacraments
that require oils consecrated by a valid Bishop for their valid Administration
that means that for example if Bishop Bernard filet who is a valid Bishop were
to confirm someone with invalid chrism the Sacrament of Confirmation would not
be conferred the person would not be confirmed
likewise if a valid priest heck even if Pope Saint Pius the tenth himself

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were to come back from the dead and administer extreme unction to you and
use invalid oil the sacrament would not be conferred
and what makes this even scarier is that it's going to be difficult to know
exactly how and where these holy oils of the false Bishop vedus wander get
distributed right where they end up where they will actually be used because
the sspx is probably not going to volunteer that information
just as they tried to hide as much as possible the fact that it was wander who
did the Chrismas in Seitz kofen in Germany on April 6.
yeah that was really interesting they did announce it beforehand in their
Liturgical Calendar Maybe by mistake but in everything else they avoided
mentioning wander or showing his face like the plague
on the website of the sspx German District they published 19 photos of the

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chrisum mass and holy oil ceremony and in not a single one of them can you
see the face of veda's wander either wander is not visible at all or
you can only see him from behind and not identify him
or you can only see his hands or he is so far away that you cannot possibly
recognize him it is remarkable that in 19 photos they
made sure you cannot tell who the bishop is in a single one of them not even in
the group photo that was taken after the ceremony
they show three group shots and not one of them is taken from the front they're
all either from the side or from the back so it's very noticeable that they were
trying hard not to reveal the identity of the bishop
and also in the little news article that

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accompanied the release of the photos in which they speak about the chrism Mass
there is complete silence about the identity of the bishop or pseudo Bishop
and lastly the sspx YouTube channel for the german-speaking world released no
video of the ceremony and there was no live stream either but yes it was wander
and in fact somehow one picture got leaked showing juander standing there
and that was later posted at a Spanish-speaking set of a conscious
blog of course I'll include the link in the show notes
folks I think it's very suspicious that the sspx is not being upfront about this
now I'm sure that from their perspective they're thinking
look let's not cause unnecessary controversy a lot of people are going to

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be upset even though there's technically nothing to be upset about let's just
kind of hide who the celebrant was and let's just wait for this thing to blow
over that's probably how they Justified it before their own consciences I don't
know now you might ask well why should they want to hide that from their own
people if the sspx accepts novus ordo ordinations as valid and that is their
public position then why would that disturb any of their people
well because you see the sspx didn't always accept novusordo Episcopal
consecrations is certainly valid that didn't happen until late 2005
when faced with the question of whether the newly elected Benedict XVI who had
been made a bishop in the noble sorto right back in 1977 whether that man was

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even a valid Bishop can you imagine what situation the sspx
would have found itself in with regard to the Vatican if they had acknowledged
Benedict XVI Joseph ratzinger as a valid Pope but not a valid Bishop
that would have poisoned the relationship between the lefevres and
the new pope from the get-go and they would probably be light years away right
now from any kind of concession or regularization
so clearly they had a conflict of interest they really needed those novus
ordo Bishops to be valid now I want to be fair here and
acknowledge that this conflict of interest alone is not enough to say that
therefore they couldn't possibly have come across objective evidence showing
that the noble sort of ordinations are valid after all
I'm not saying that they're in bad faith about this or forced a preconceived

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desirable conclusion I have no evidence of that
what I am saying though is that this sudden discovery that novel's Ordo
Bishops are valid sure came in handy for them in 2005.
ransinger was elected Benedict XVI in April of 2005 and the Angelus the
official magazine of the sspx United States District published the first of
two parts of a new study of the 1968 Rite of novosordo Bishops ordinations in
December of that year and part two was published in January of 2006.
the author was not an sspx priest but one of the recognize and resist
Dominicans of every year France by the name of Father Pierre Marie
the original in French had been published in the fall of 2005 and so the

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Angelus published an English translation shortly after that
so denying or doubting the validity of novosordo right Episcopal consecrations
is not something exclusive to say de vacantus so don't say that this
controversy is just afraid of O'Connor is trying to beat up on the sspx
until circumstances forced them into making a decision either way the sspx
happily acknowledged that the validity was questionable and that included
initially Archbishop Marcel LeFevre himself the founder of the Society of
Saint Pius X now I'm not saying that everyone in the
sspx considered the noble sort of Bishops invalid until 2005. some did
some didn't the point is it was a contested issue and to this day not
every lefevreus is convinced that the noble sorto right is valid

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for example take Bishop Bernard tisier de malare
as recently as June 29 2016 he said in an ordination sermon and this is a quote
obviously we cannot accept this new tampered with ordination right which
casts doubts on the validity of numerous ordinations done according to the new
right unquote now that was in reference to Priestly
ordination but I imagine that if he doubts the validity of the Priestly
ordinations done in the noble sorto right then he will doubt Episcopal
consecrations all the more because the problems with that right are much greater
in fact what do you know in a letter dated August 12 1998 in response to someone
who had sent a material by Dr Rama Kamara Swami on the subject Bishop TCA

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responded as follows quote after reading it quickly I
concluded there was doubt about the validity of Episcopal consecration
conferred according to the right of Paul VI the phrase spiritual principalum
governing spirit in the form introduced by Paul VI is not sufficiently clear in
itself and the accessory rights do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense
unquote you can find a scan of this letter with a translation in the show
notes so that was 1998. interestingly enough back then the
Society of Saint Pius X also had a case similar to that of Bishop wander now
in that Anova sordo Bishop from the Philippines had decided to join the
society or at least work with them and pretty much adopt their recognize and

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resist position and that was Salvador Lazo Lazo who died
in 2000 he was the retired ordinary of San Fernando de la Union in the
Philippines his Episcopal consecration had also taken place in the new Rite
and that was on February 3rd 1970. in May of 1998 just as the 10th
anniversary of Archbishop lefevre's consecration of the four sspx Bishops
was looming Bishop Lazo wrote a declaration of faith
that he sent to the false Pope John Paul II in which he basically declared
himself a traditionalist and rejected ecumenism the new mass and so on and you
can find a copy of this declaration Linked In the show notes also

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so it was a situation very similar to that of today with Vida swander
and now it gets interesting because now we ask how did the sspx ACT back then
considering that Lazo was a novos Ordo Bishop
quite simply they did not want him to ordain or confirm because they believed
the novus ordo right of Episcopal consecration promulgated by Paul VI in
1968 to be invalid or at least doubtful and Bishop Tessier in the letter I
quoted from a few minutes ago specifically stated quote as regardsman
senior Lazo it would be difficult for us to explain these things to him the only
solution is not to ask him to confirm or ordain unquote
and so we see with concrete examples that holding Bishops ordained in the

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novel's auto ride to be invalid is not something only said of akanas do in is
something many recognize and resist traditionalists also held many years ago
mostly before 2005. another point I should make is that
there are sspx resistance priests those priests who left the sspx or were kicked
out basically because the sspx was no longer sspx enough for them
some of them have spoken out publicly against the society allowing Bishop
wander to celebrate the Chrismas and attempt to consecrate the holy oils
and among them are for example a certain father Rousseau and the father Pino who
are both former sspx priests who are now with the resistance

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so again nobody can say that this is just state of akanas trying to stir the pot
now when I brought up this issue of the wander chrism Mass tragedy on Twitter
I was appalled at some of the reactions I was getting from supposed traditional
Catholics some of them were rather quick to
dismiss the concern about sacramental validity I remember one person
suggesting that the church supplies no the church does not supply
the church can and sometimes does Supply missing jurisdiction for certain acts
but never does the church supply for a lack of proper matter or form of a
sacrament or for missing holy orders you might as well believe that a Layman
can offer mass and if the people aren't aware he's a Layman then it's a valid
Mass anyway because oh the church supplies no that's not how it works you

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will not find that in church law or in Catholic teaching
others treated the concerns about the validity of the Holy oils consecrated by
wander almost as if it were a kind of pharisaical legalism
as if in the end it didn't really matter if the holy oils were validly
consecrated because well you know God isn't Bound by the sacraments and God
can make it valid anyway or God will just Supply the sacramental grace anyway
it's insane I think it's even a kind of blasphemy
because it's essentially tempting God because you're presuming that God will
basically work a miracle when he has not at all promised that he would do that
see God has promised for example that he will transubstantiate Bread and
Wine into his body and blood when a valid priest pronounces the right words

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with the right intention that he has promised but he has not
promised for example that he will grant The Graces that would come through the
sacrament of extreme unction when the sacrament is not validly administered
now he may do so perhaps in an individual case out of his pure goodness
and mercy or he may not that is totally up to God
he certainly has not promised that he will
and so it is presumptuous to sit there and say oh well even if the holy oils
are invalid God will take care of it he'll make sure that everything will be
all right for those who don't know better
that that is just not Catholic teaching remember the words of Father Halligan
that I quoted earlier all the details he mentioned to ensure

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sacramental validity well with that flippant of an attitude as I saw on
Twitter from people who consider themselves traditional Catholics not
even realizing how much they've been influenced by modernism on this
with that dismissive of an attitude why father Halligan and all the Church of
sacramental theologians must have been scrupulous Pharisees or complete idiots
but God isn't Bound by the sacraments yes that's true but it misses the point
the dying sinner doesn't have a right to God's mercy and forgiveness
that's a Grace we don't deserve and cannot Merit
look if you're a farmer and you plant crops you know those crops won't grow
without sufficient rain but then God isn't Bound by the weather

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is he no he doesn't need rain to make the crops grow right he could just work
a miracle and have them grow without rain that is true
but it is not in accordance with the ordinary course of Providence
God expects us to act in accordance with the laws of nature which he made
see God can feed you miraculously there's no question about that
but he has not promised to if you decide to be Reckless and not eat
anymore well God is not going to work a miracle to keep you from starving
so this is not a question of God's power it is a question of God's Providence
it is not a question of what God can do but of what he will do
so it's simply scandalous to take such a Carefree attitude to something so

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serious as the validity of sacraments especially sacraments for the dying
whose judgment by God is imminent people who take such a serious matter so
lightly are not trusting in God they're tempting God
now you might say well I'm not a lefeverist I have nothing to do with the
Society of Saint Pius the tenth so what do I care well not so fast first of all
you should care about the salvation of your fellow man regardless
but secondly even beyond that the issue may very well impact you at some point
also because maybe one day through some circumstance an sspx priest will be
anointing you as you lie dying or someone you love
so this is a matter that could potentially concern anyone to sum up

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we're not accusing the sspx of being inconsistent if they accept the noble
sort of ordinations as valid as they do then it makes sense that they would
allow Vita's wander to consecrate their holy oils
the problem rather is first that the sspx is wrong in accepting the 1968
right of ordination and even if they are sincere in their error sincerity cannot
make an invalid Sacrament valid and second they are not forthcoming
about who offered the prison Mass on April 6th they have tried to hide the
fact that Vedas wander was involved so whether in Germany or any other
countries those oils may end up being used in
whoever receives confirmation or last rights with these oils

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will always be left wandering all right I know this has been pretty
lengthy and rather dry and perhaps a little tedious
and so let's get into some lighter stuff now
actually before we do that yes I know we still need to explain just what the
problem with the 1968 right of Episcopal consecration is like why we say
it's invalid but we'll do that later in this program because it's also quite
Technical and I think right now we need to change gears a little and um hey why
not go through some quick recent news stories you may have missed
on May 8th 2023 the Argentinian apostate Jorge bergoglio stage name Pope Francis
set the following during an audience with religious of the congregation of

00:32
the Holy Ghost after quoting something from the prophet isaiahs he said quote
when I hear this I am reminded of God's hand caressing caressing the people
caressing each of you the tender God who always caresses unquote
well no there's no commentary needed here right he's got this weird obsession
with the words caress and tenderness and he uses them all the time and in ways
that don't really make sense or where the words just don't fit
it's like when in 2017 he told participants in a Ted conference that
there needs to be a revolution of tenderness
and I think what he usually means by that word tenderness is Corporal Works
of Mercy as part of the love of neighbor but of course he could just say that if

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that's what he means right instead he blathers on incessantly
about tenderness normal people just don't talk like that
but tenderness is only one of his weird words another one as we've seen is
caress on February 27 2021 during one of his
bazillion interviews Francis was asked by a journalist quote you told me
several times about your new roses how conscious are you of them unquote
and this is what bregolio answered quote new roses need to be fed with mate mate
is a tea that they drink down there in Argentina neuroses need to be fed with
mate not only that they must also be caressed
they are a person's companion throughout his life I remember once reading a book

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that interested me a lot and made me laugh out loud its title was rejoice in
being neurotic unquote [Music] yeah you know what maybe we should just
leave it at that right because I guess it explains a lot
unfortunately though I still have more from Francis and I can't not share it
with you oh you know what we forgot our little
Jorge bergoglio jingle one second I'm embarrassed here it is [Music]

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from the Jorge's mouth [Music] thank you yup it's all straight from the Jorge's
mouth so here's another one on May 4th 2023 bergoglio gave an address to
participants in a conference of the organization of Catholic universities of
Latin America and the Caribbean in it the papal Pretender said this quote
perhaps the mission of the university is
to prepare social choreographers men and
women who Envision in the people a dance a dance where everyone contributes to
the grace of total movement and no one is excluded unquote
yeah sorry I had to do that to you I was thinking you know why should only I
suffer when reading this stuff but but no he really said that

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and I used a computerized translation here because the Vatican has not yet
released an official English translation
as of the time of this recording okay so only Italian and the original Spanish
but by the time you listen to this podcast they may have
the official English version up and so the wording that they use then might be
slightly different but in essence it'll be the same crazy message
and hey maybe we should be grateful that the Vatican has actually even reported
these words because you see at this point Francis talks so
much garbage that not everything gets transcribed or reported anymore and I'm
not kidding on April 26th the longtime Vatican
journalist Sandro Magister published a post on this blog entitled Francis the

00:37
communicator with a press office all his own at Santa Marta
in a Magister describes francis's magisterium as quote that gigantic and
disorderly Archive of spoken and written
words unquote that come from the lips of Jorge Mario bergoglio and he goes on to
say that the bergolian magisterium quote has it all and too much
to the point that the clerks charged with recording his speeches have for
some time found themselves having to trim and remove at least some excessive
scurrilous Expressions gutter talk unquote
yeah don't you hate it when that happens
right you're a clerk hired to record the August words of the Holy Father
and then you're like what I can't write that but of course we live in an age of

00:38
ubiquitous recording devices and media coverage
so whatever he says will eventually get out one way or another but let's be
honest those words of Francis that are officially reported by the Vatican
are bad enough for example yes we are definitely not
short on concrete examples here let's rewind to April 6 2023 which was
Holy Thursday same day as Vida swanders attempt at consecrating Holy oils
and Francis as usual washed the feet not
of priests as he should but basically of everyone else right this time it was
juvenile prisoners again and he gave them a sermon that was mercifully short
at least but filled with Lutheranism or some other heresy at least not

00:39
Catholicism in fact he very seriously misled the young prisoners he preached to
he must hate them considering what he said and didn't say
he once again preached forgiveness without repentance without Contrition
read the homily yourself and notice that although he preaches salvation and
forgiveness through Christ repentance or Contrition are not
mentioned as a condition he essentially tells the poor prisoners
that there is nothing they need to do to
be forgiven by God he tells them in fact and this is a quote now that God quote
loves us just like we are Jesus is never shocked at our weaknesses
he has never astonished because he has already paid he just wants to accompany

00:40
us he wants to take us by the hand so that life won't be so harsh for us unquote
that is what Jorge brigolio preaches to criminals in a prison
instead of gently leading them to repentance
he tells them there is nothing they need to worry about nothing they need to be
ashamed of everything is already forgiven they're just fine the way they
are and all God wants now is to make life easier for them you have got to be
kidding how much more Twisted can it get that is
such a perversion of the true gospel of Christ yes God loves them and wants to
forgive them of course nothing is lost they can still attain the ultimate
happiness the ultimate reason for their existence which is the beatific Vision

00:41
Eternal happiness in heaven but they need to prepare for
justification to get right with God they need to have Supernatural contrition
they need to be willing to do Penance they need to be willing to make
restitution if applicable and like any other Christian they will need to take
up their cross and follow the lord Jesus because only the way of the Cross will
lead to Eternal salvation see Francis could have just told them
that in a nicer way perhaps but his obligation would have been to
communicate that in essence because that
and that alone is the gospel and not the incessant drivel about accompaniment an
unconditional love and tender caresses and all that jazz what he said to those
kids in prison is actually similar to what he said on August 18 2021 at his

00:42
Wednesday audience when he said that we must observe the Ten Commandments not in
order to be justified but quote as an aid to the encounter with Jesus Christ
unquote well that's the new theology for you
smart sounding drivel that has no clear meaning but accomplishes its purpose
which is to subvert the true Doctrine and cause great Confusion And if someone
accuses you of heresy you can always say well that's not what I meant
anyway going back to that prison homily Francis also blathered about the Dignity
of being sinners yeah that's a new one even for him I think
and it reminds me of when a few years back he spoke of the Holy Eucharist
not as the bread of angels but as the bread of sinners

00:43
see and there we go again that wording bread of Sinners suggests
that it should or at least can be received in the state of mortal sin
but at the same time there is just enough wiggle room to wear a Jimmy Aiken
or a Tim Staples or some other Noble sort of apologist can say no we we have
to interpret this in an orthodox way and you know we're all Sinners and and he
just means that it's for Sinners to become holy yeah well
you can of course spin it that way but it is Spin and everyone else will
get the intended message that by putting it that way bread of
Sinners which is not a traditional name for the Holy Eucharist Francis is
hinting at his approval of sacrilegious communions I mean that's obvious

00:44
because if he must use the term bread which of course has to be understood in
a metaphorical sense because it's not bread it's the body and blood of Christ
but if he must use the term bread then he ought to use the term holy bread of
eternal life which is found in the Canon of the Roman Mass
or the term bread of angels wouldn't that have been something to say
to the juvenile Prisoners the Lord Jesus wants to give you his very own body and
blood to consume under the appearance of bread
but before you can receive this bread of angels this holy bread of eternal life
remember how pure your soul should be and that purity of soul is available to
you through the sacraments of baptism and penance

00:45
that would have been Orthodox and edifying but instead he says nothing of
repentance and just blathers about dignity and all is well and we're all
Sinners it's despicable you know what let's take a break before
I blow a gasket here we're way overdue anyway and uh on the other side
will have lots more trapcast [Music] there is nothing
we hope you are enjoying the sample of the motet Felix nonquez from the album
sacred choral music by Nicholas Wilton sung by the acclaimed English choir

00:46
Magnificat if you appreciate such a sacred choral music please support the
traditional catholic composer Nicholas Wilton by buying a copy of his CD or
purchasing downloads of individual tracks from four marksmusic.com that is
f-o-u-r-m-a-r-k-s-m-u-s-i-c.com or his website catholicmusic.co.uk there is more
information and also a new CD of this piano music available on those websites

00:47
[Music] that's awesome [Music] it's not just a podcast it's a trapcast [Music]
thank you [Music] and welcome back to the second portion of trentcast 35.
[Music] where we clean out the theological sewer of the Vatican II church
[Music] it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it [Music]
ladies and gentlemen did you know that water creates Sublime communion with God
well if you had been reading Vatican news you would have known it on February

00:48
14 2023 a news article was published there reporting on the words of Jackie
Raymond of co-founder of the laudato C movement
and yeah you probably didn't realize this but according to remand quote we're
called to be in close relationship or kinship with water
unquote I don't know about you but personally I prefer that uh communion
with the forest deal that Francis talks about in his post-senital exhortation
karida Amazonia paragraph 56 he writes there quote if we
enter into communion with the forest our voices will easily blend with its own
and become a prayer unquote hey I'm just reporting what it says
right don't blame me but back to the water thing remin says

00:49
quote when we're polluting this Gift of Water we're actually despoiling and
diminishing the presence and the power if you like of the spirituality of God
for us unquote um you know clean water is important right
I think we can all agree on that it's necessary for life we obviously need to
fight the pollution of our water but these people are making a religion
out of it and you know I'm starting to think that
what this whole laudato C movement is about and we discussed its apostasy and
traptcast express number 172 if you remember I think they're slowly trying to
introduce Hinduism into souls and don't think I'm exaggerating because it was

00:50
the Indian eco-feminist Vandana Shiva and she's someone who would know
who said that when she read bergoglio's encyclical laudato C she felt like she
was raiding one of the ancient Hindu scriptures it's unbelievable
I included the link to that in the show notes at
tradcast.org just scroll to episode troutcast 35.
anyway Jackie Raymond to go back to the Vatican news article wants us to hear
the Cry of water and the songs of water as well
and I have to say there are so many cries everywhere now you can't hear a
thing anymore everyone and everything is crying right
the Earth the poor the oppressed women the Amazon the oceans water in general

00:51
probably outer space as well by now and then of course on top of that
bragolio is always talking too I mean I give up actually may I make a suggestion
the only cry we should really be concerned about it's funny but we never
hear about that one from the Vatican the only cry we should be concerned
about first and foremost and above all others is the Cry of the crucified Christ
and if we do that all of these other cries will take care of themselves
in other news a Jewish rabbi gave the last blessing during a noble sorto mass
in Colombia on April 6 2023 funny we keep running into that date well it was
Holy Thursday as you know and in the Vatican 2 religion there is a widespread

00:52
belief that the people who adhere to present-day Judaism are the people of
the old Covenant and that the Mosaic law is salvific for them that is apostasy
that is a complete denial of the coming of Christ and the New Covenant
anyway there is Video available of that Rabbi giving his Blessing at the end of
the noble sword Omas and there is also an accompanying blog post written in
Spanish but I'll link it and if anything you may have to use a computer to
translate it Pope Benedict XIV was rather clear in a 1756 encyclical X quo
when he said quote the ceremonies of the Mosaic law were abrogated by the coming
of Christ and can no longer be observed without sin after the promulgation of

00:53
the Gospel unquote end of story right that was paragraph 61 of the
encyclical x quote the chosen people are now the Catholics not the Jews
and anyone can now be and in fact is exhorted to be a part of this chosen
people of the New Covenant by joining the Catholic Church
the gospel is really not that difficult all right last topic for today as
promised an overview of why not just state of a contests but also some
recognize and resist traditionalists hold that the right of Episcopal
consecration or Bishop's ordination promulgated by Paul VI on June 18
1968 is invalid or if we want to be a bit more

00:54
accommodating perhaps of sufficiently doubtful validity such that it must be
treated as invalid in practice now I'm not going to go into too much
detail because I want to keep this brief and easy to understand so it'll be more
like a bird's eye view of the subject and so first let's remember that you can
never prove a sacrament to be valid you can possibly prove it invalid for
example if you can prove that the priest
didn't baptize in the name of the father
and of the son and of the Holy Ghost but
in the name of the celebrating Community or something like that that would be
evidence that the sacrament was invalid but you cannot prove a Sacrament valid
the best you can do is prove that all the necessary elements were in place for

00:55
the sacrament to be presumed valid but it is just a presumption in every single
case because the internal intention to do what the church does must always be
present in the minister and that is something that cannot be verified
externally it can only be presumed that's why father Halligan in the
administration of the sacraments can write on page 23 quote every Sacrament
may be possibly invalid or valid unquote so we cannot have perfect absolute
infallible certainty that a particular Sacrament is valid
but that's okay because that is not some sort of defect in Catholic theology it
is rather how God has established things for his church a greater certitude than

00:56
that is not possible and not necessary it is how God has designed it and how
God wills it all right so that just as a preliminary consideration
nevertheless just because we cannot ever have absolute certitude doesn't mean we
can't have any or that we don't need any in fact before we're allowed to receive
a Sacrament we must have moral certitude that it's valid
and ordinarily that means we must be so certain of its validity that every
prudent doubt is excluded not absolutely every doubt but every prudent doubt and
then of course moral theology defines what is and isn't a prudent doubt but we
don't need to get into that now since this is just supposed to be an overview
so the question is can we have that kind of moral certitude Beyond prudent doubt

00:57
with regard to the validity of Paul VI right of Episcopal consecration
and the answer is definitely not so let me explain
the reason why the novosordo right of Episcopal consecration is invalid or at
least prudently doubtful has to do exclusively with the form of the
sacrament remember every Sacrament consists of matter and form and baptism
for example the matter is the water being poured over the head and the form
is the words I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the
Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost and those words need to be said while the water is
being poured in the ordination of a bishop the matter
is the laying on of hands on the head of the man being ordained and the form is

00:58
the prayer of consecration now in 1947 popei is the 12th specified
what words in that prayer of consecration are necessary for validity
and those words have since been replaced by Paul VI with completely different
words of course those who believe that Paul VI
was a true Pope may not care too much they will say that well since the words
for holy orders were not given us by Christ unlike for baptism whatever words
one Pope establishes as necessary for validity those can be changed by a
subsequent Pope into different words okay let's grant that I'm not entirely
sure it's that simple but let's accept that for the sake of argument
there are still two further problems number one
this makes the entire argument dependent on Paul VI having been a true Pope so

00:59
even if people think he was if they're wrong about that the whole argument
collapses and number two although different words
could be used that express the same thing as the words decreed by Pius XII
nevertheless the words prescribed by Paul VI do not express even that
let me explain even if the words are changeable it's obvious they cannot just
be changed into whatever right you can't say that from now on the words of the
prayer for the ordination of a bishop are going to be uh please tie your shoes
or this man will now be a cook or may God bless you right there is nothing in
these words that even remotely says anything about the consecration of a bishop
so what then is the minimum necessary what does the form of the sacrament need

01:00
to express well according to Pope Pius xii's Apostolic Constitution sacramentum
ordinase number three quote the sacraments of the new law as sensible
signs which produce invisible Grace must both signify the grace which they
produce and produce the grace which they signify unquote
then the pope continues and says that the matter of all three degrees of the
sacrament of holy orders Deacon priest and Bishop is the laying on of hands
now the laying on of Hands by itself is not determinate enough meaning it is
used for all three degrees and also by the way for confirmation
right so by itself the imposition of hands is not clear enough it doesn't
sufficiently signify the grace of the sacrament it doesn't sufficiently

01:01
indicate what is actually taking place so that's where the form comes in the
prayer of ordination which of course is a different one for each of the
different degrees right there's one for Deacon and then there's a different one
for priest and yet another one for Bishop
going back to Sacramento ordnis Pius XII
says quote the form and the only form is The Words which determine the
application of this matter meaning the imposition of hands which univocally
signify the sacramental effects namely the power of order and the grace of the
Holy Spirit and which are accepted and used by the church in that sense unquote
that's uh paragraph four of Sacramento ordinase so the words must signify
univocally or univocally that is they must reflect without

01:02
ambiguity what is taking place and they must be the words accepted and
used by the church for that so you cannot just substitute your own words instead
so basically the ordination prayer must ask God to send the Holy Ghost to make
the person being ordained into a bishop and the prayer instituted by Paul VI
doesn't do that that is the issue the traditional prayer the one declared
to be necessary for validity by Pius XII is this one
quote perfect in thy priest the fullness
of thy Ministry and clotheing Him in all
the ornaments of spiritual glorification sanctify him with a Heavenly anointing
unquote and that is from Sacramento ordinis paragraph five
now this may sound a bit obscure at first because it's so poetic but you can

01:03
see that since it speaks about a priest receiving the fullness of God's Ministry
that can only be the episcopacy because there's only one degree of holy
orders that's higher than the priest the bishop has the fullness of ordination
and that is also what the church understands by the words all the
ornaments of spiritual glorification so the power of order the episcopacy is
clearly expressed and so is the grace of the Holy Ghost
because the prayer says sanctify him with the Heavenly anointing and the
Heavenly anointing is of course the sacramental grace
so that's the traditional prayer but then came Paul VI one of the
imposters and he changed the traditional prayer into this quote so now pour out

01:04
upon this chosen one that power which is from you the governing Spirit whom you
gave to your beloved Son Jesus Christ the spirit given him to the Holy
Apostles who founded the church in every place to be your temple for the
unceasing glory and praise of your name unquote
this prayer speaks about a governing Spirit who is to be poured out upon the
person okay fine countless hours have been used arguing about who or what that
governing spirit is now let's just agree at least for the sake of argument that
it's the Holy Ghost let's just grant that
the main problem that I see here is that even though the holy spirit is being
invoked it is not expressed what the holy spirit is supposed to do
Pius XII said the prayer must Express the power of order and the grace of the

01:05
Holy Ghost where is the power of order let's read it again so now pour out upon
this chosen one the one being ordained that power which is from you okay so
it's talking about the power from God the governing Spirit okay we've already
said let's agree that it's the Holy Ghost whom you gave to your beloved Son
Jesus Christ the spirit given by him to the Holy Apostles who founded the church
in every place to be your temple for the unceasing glory and praise of your name
all right so the prayer asks God the Father to pour out the holy ghost or at
least that governing Spirit but to do what to what end we're not told the Holy
Ghost you got to remember is poured out also in baptism in confirmation and in
the ordinations of deacons and Priests for example

01:06
so the mere fact that God is being asked to pour out the Holy Spirit cannot be
sufficient for validity for an Episcopal consecration just as the laying on of
Hands by itself means nothing definite right it's indeterminate so this prayer
too is indeterminate it does not without ambiguity Express the sacrament that is
supposedly being confected now some will say wait a minute it's
talking about the governing spirit and that means episcopacy because the bishop
governs his flock but that argument fails on two counts on three actually
first the governing spirit and that phrase is by the way a hapless
translation of the Latin spiritum principalum there's long been a
controversy about what that term actually means or how it should be translated

01:07
German equivalent is Fort Geist which translates as Exquisite Spirit or Noble
Spirit or excellent Spirit nothing there about governing
another English translation I've seen renders it as guiding spirit
but governing or not the adjective merely determines the noun it describes
the spirit not the man being ordained or the power being conferred
and then not every Bishop governs A Flock anyway dioces and Bishops do but
not titular Bishops not auxiliary Bishops and not retired Bishops besides
the assignment over A Flock and the necessary jurisdiction for that are
given with the canonical appointment they do not come with ordination but
with an office being conferred so that argument too Falls flat
but then what about the part of the prayer that says of the spirit whom you

01:08
gave to your beloved Son Jesus Christ the spirit given by him to the Holy
Apostles well that's a lot of words but all they do is describe that Spirit
further there's still nothing there about what that spirit is being asked to do
but some will say it says the spirit given by him to the Holy Apostles who
founded the church in every place to be your temple for the unceasing glory and
praise of your name yes that's true and it's simply talking about the Holy
Apostles and what they did it still doesn't say much less without ambiguity
what the spirit is supposed to do or what power of order is being conferred
that the apostles founded the church in every place is one thing but that says
nothing about what is happening to the man over whom that prayer is being prayed

01:09
in the end what we're left with in the novel's Ordo Rite of Episcopal
consecration is a prayer that at best asks God to send down the Holy Spirit
upon a particular person but without specifying what for
and since that does not express the power of order and possibly not even the
grace of the Holy Ghost it does not signify unambiguously the grace of the
sacrament and therefore must be considered invalid
now I know there are a ton of objections
that can be made and that have been made but as we said in this podcast we're
just going to provide an overview so I just wanted to cover the basic arguments
so that people understand what all this fuss is about
and I know all of these things can be difficult they can be tedious and
frustrating but they matter and that is why for decades a lot of people both

01:10
inside and outside of the Society of Saint Pius X have not accepted Nova's
Auto Bishops as certainly valid as valid Beyond prudent doubt
and so please don't fall into the Trap of thinking that whoever now questions
Vitas wanders holy oils just hates the society or hates Bishop wander or just
wants to cause trouble that's a very emotional reaction to what is actually a
rather cerebral matter remember the words of Our Lord to Saint
Peter in Matthew 16 19. whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven
and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven
Pope Pius XII bound the church to the words he specified as being the form of
the sacrament of holy orders and necessary for validity
even if you think that Paul VI was a true Pope

01:11
will you really say that although he gave you Vatican II which you don't
consider binding and The ecumenical directory of 1967 which you don't
consider binding and the new Mass which you don't consider binding
that when it comes to Episcopal consecration all of a sudden his words
are binding and they can overthrow the decree of Pope Pius XII
so you will follow Paul VI when it suits you but not when it doesn't
if that's what you want to do if that's your theology you will follow the
theology at your own risk [Music] and with that we have come to the end of
troutcast 35. thank you everyone for sticking around

01:12
God bless you and we'll see you next time [Music] thank you [Applause] [Music]

01:13
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