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Material Sufficiency vs. Partim-partim

Started by Kephapaulos, April 20, 2022, 09:42:44 PM

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Kephapaulos


Michael Lofton discusses the issue of Sacred Scripture in regard to various views held by theologians throughout history such as material sufficiency vs. partim-partim. Material sufficiency says that the whole Depositum Fidei is contained either explicitly or implicitly in Holy Writ and needs to be made clear at times formally by Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium as opposed to the heretical sola scriptura of Protestantism that claim formal sufficiency of Scripture, whereas partim-partim would say that not everything is contained in Holy Writ and is supplemented by Sacred Tradition.

Lofton also gives these definitions in the show notes below the video on the Youtube page itself as well as discusses them in the video:

Divine revelation – what God has supernaturally revealed.
Scripture - the written transmission of what God has supernaturally revealed.
Sola Scriptura - that only Scripture is an infallible rule on faith and morals. All other rules are fallible.
Sacred Tradition - that which has been handed down in writing or orally that God has supernaturally revealed.
Oral Tradition - the oral transmission of supernatural revelation.
Material Sufficiency – all supernatural revelation is either implicitly or explicitly in scripture.
Partim Partim view - some supernatural revelation is only in Scripture and some is only in oral tradition.
Inherent tradition – supernatural revelation that is explicit in the bible.
Declarative tradition – supernatural revelation that is implicit in the bible.
Constitutive tradition – the view that some of the content of supernatural revelation is not in scripture, even implicitly (part of the partim partim view).
Dominical tradition - supernatural revelation revealed by Jesus.
Divine apostolic tradition - supernatural revelation revealed by God through the Apostles.
Dogmatic tradition – supernaturally revealed doctrines (teachings).
Human Apostolic tradition - non-revelatory tradition given by the Apostles.
Ecclesiastical tradition - non-revelatory traditions that are post-apostolic and derive from the church.
Disciplinary tradition – apostolic or post-apostolic non-revelatory practices, including liturgical rites, that.
Primary object of infallibility - something that God has revealed that the church can teach infallibly.
Secondary object of infallibility - something that God has not revealed that the church can teach infallibly.


Lofton supports material sufficiency, but what has the Church really traditionally held? Also, I notice between 1:05 and 1:20 in the video (or about 1:10) he references his past debate with Timothy Flanders over the Novus Ordo Missae and points out that the Second Council of Nicea's use of the term "ecclesiastical tradition" refers to "dogmatic tradition" instead of the term "ecclesiastical tradition" of which he gives a definition or "discplinary tradition" under which he would include liturgical rites. I had thought worship was a category of its own though that deals with both doctrine and discipline. He mentions that liturgy cannot be used an actual source of dogma, but I would have thought still that it can be used to confirm the teaching of the Church.

Quid dicis tu, Geremia? ;D

Geremia

Quotepartim-partim would say that not everything is contained in Holy Writ and is supplemented by Sacred Tradition
Scripture and Tradition are the two sources of Revelation.

Quoteliturgy cannot be used an actual source of dogma
is false.
QuoteRevelation comes from two sources: Scripture and Tradition
cf. Fr. Chad Ripperger's The Binding Force of Tradition

Marian dogmas like the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption tend to be found much more in Tradition than in the Scripture, though Pope Pius IX's Ineffabilis Deus gives Scriptural basis for the Immaculate Conception.

Liturgy is part of Tradition. Pope Pius XII's 1 Nov. 1950 Apostolic Constitution defining the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mother, Munificentissimus Deus, says "that, since ancient times, there have been both in the East and in the West solemn liturgical offices commemorating this privilege." He then mentions the Roman liturgy, Gallican sacramentary, and the Byzantine liturgy of the Dormition and Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mother.
(source)


Kephapaulos

#2
What do we make of Ratzinger's argument and concern about a reification of revelation in reducing the Person of Christ Who is the truth to a set of dogmatic and doctrinal propositions and principals and that in order for revelation to be revelation, there must be a subject to whom it is revealed? This is an allusion to Ratzinger's dissertation being judged by Schmaus as discussed in this video by Timothy Flanders on The Meaning of Catholic: https://youtu.be/IDRkN3uEq9U


There was a supposed trying to reconnect the subjective with the objective that was lost with Kant. I know there is Faith Imperiled by Reason by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais thst discusses the thinking of Ratzinger concerning "the hermeneutic of continuity" and Vatican II, but he specifically says he does not mean to write a critique of the thought of Ratzinger if I am not mistaken. What are the best critques of the theology and philosophy of Ratzinger?

Geremia


Quotereification of revelation in reducing the Person of Christ Who is the truth to a set of dogmatic and doctrinal propositions and principals
Sounds like those who criticize St. Thomas for being rationalist.

Kephapaulos




It's also tragic when little or no use is made of St. Thomas as can be seen here.